this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023
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"Officials said that Israel and Egypt were prepared to let foreigners leave the Strip which is under heavy Israeli bombardment, but Hamas had refused."

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (8 children)

There's got to be a way to remove Hamas without killing everyone in Gaza. I hope the international community can come together to find a way. I definitely wouldn't leave it to Israel lol.

Israel is going to try its best. Nobody else is going to touch this with a ten foot pole. Most of the international community isn't even willing to condemn Hamas, let alone go in there and get rid of them. Israel literally calls them up in the buildings they're going to bomb and says "please evacuate this building by this time!" You can't make that shit up.

If Egypt or the UN wants to take care of Gaza after the war, and actually make sure they don't get weapons, and actually de-radicalize them (current schools in Gaza are not great at deradicalization), you name it, I'm sure Israel would be on board with that. They didn't blockade Gaza for fun, blockades are expensive. But burying the dead from the constant attacks of a Hamas with infinite weaponry is fucking worse.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (19 children)

You've lost the support of the international community and even the US is distancing itself from the approach you are taking. This is a fools errand to try to extract a part of a society by direct force (see Vietnam, Afghanistan <-two different super powers made that mistake). What this will be is an excuse to murder as judge, jury and executioner as you move to further subjugate a civilian population behind closed doors. Literal closed walls in Gaza's case. These kids have grown up knowing nothing but what the adults tell them and looking at the walls that keep them in.

"You name it, I'm sure Israel would be on board with that" How about just releasing the Prisoners for the hostages and going home?

“We spoke bluntly and made it clear to the prime minister in no uncertain terms that a comprehensive deal based on the ‘everyone for everyone’ principle is a deal the families would consider, and has the support of all of Israel,” Meirav Leshem Gonen, mother of Romi Gonen, who was kidnapped from the Supernova dance festival, said on behalf of the families in a news conference following the meeting.

Netanyahu was asked about such a deal at his Saturday news conference, and acknowledged he discussed the option with the families.
“I think that elaborating on this will not help achieve our goal. In the meeting with the families, I felt emotionally helpless,” he said.

So maybe not everything. Please don't judge Dan for not responding, He blocked me an hour ago as he didn't like my response to the justification of the 3,000 children that have been bombed to death in Gaza.

edit: deleted two words I accidentally repeated

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (12 children)

Israel is going to try it's best

News: Israel only catches or kills a dozen Hamas fighters but kills 8k citizen civilians with over 1k children under the rubble.

Bullshit.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The first step to deradicalize them is to stop putting Palestinians in a concentration camp. Simple as.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

What a strange concentration camp that was, where Palestinians were able to go into Israel to work every day, travel abroad, etc. Almost like most other national borders (except for Schengen), where you need a passport and maybe even a visa to enter. Or like the US, where you're not allowed in if they even suspect you're going to work. Also, let's not forget the terrorists that constantly threaten to kill your citizens. Would you let them into your house?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (6 children)

In 2011, a panel of UN experts concluded that the naval blockade of Gaza constituted collective punishment and in doing so violated international law, contradicting a previous UN investigation that declared it was legal.[215]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So which is it, are they being allowed freedom of movement into Israel to work with identification, or you don't want them in because they're terrorists who threaten to kill civilians?

All I've seen is that some people were allowed in and out, but it isn't exactly a porous border, identification requirements are strict, getting the necessary approval and documentation is difficult in a place without a functioning state. And you can't just make rules and distance yourself from the consequences of them just because people are unable to meet the requirements of those rules, you have to actually look at what the effect is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

So you don't think border control is justified given the presence of terrorists?

I agree that consequences should be taken into consideration, and I assume you don't think they were in this case.

What's your solution? What would you have done?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Those Gazans with work permits are now being illegally detained in Israel.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Against international law, not that Israel cares

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (8 children)

Please point me to the international law (I assume you mean the Geneva Convention) that says that you can't take prisoners.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

The debacle prompted criticism even from allies who said Netanyahu had facilitated Hamas’s grip on Gaza as part of a strategy to divide Palestinians.

“Since coming to power in 2009, Netanyahu has built up Hamas as an alternative to the Palestinian Authority,” wrote Yoav Limor, the military affairs correspondent for Israel Hayom, a normally pro-Netanyahu newspaper. “He was warned countless times that this was a dangerous plan: instead of bolstering the pragmatic elements, he strengthened those that will never recognize Israel’s existence.”

Even normally pro-Israeli news outlets are condemning what is happening. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/israeli-tanks-on-outskirts-of-gaza-city-with-key-road-cut

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

Israel doesn't really want to be rid of Hamas.

Their investment in the group has already paid dividends.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

How are they calling to warn anyone? The entire communications infrastructure is so compromised that ambulances are literally just driving towards the sound of explosions rather than being directed.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Memri TV is literally Israeli propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (4 children)

If Egypt or the UN wants to take care of Gaza after the war, and actually make sure they don't get weapons, and actually de-radicalize them (current schools in Gaza are not great at deradicalization), you name it, I'm sure Israel would be on board with that.

Basically turn them into a mini West bank; people with no means to defend themselves, constantly getting attacked by settlers and the police. Make them believe that this is normal and that they shouldn't defend themselves on your way out.

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