this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
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And why did they want to secede ?
According to OP, apparently because they weren't allowed to?
Yeah this line of argument is totally incoherent. The "states' rights" argument is totally post hoc nonsense and there's nothing behind it that makes any sense. "States' rights to what?" is a totally valid and appropriate question. The South had nothing beyond slavery.
From their responses in other comments, I think op would agree with my summary: the war was about states rights to secede, the secession was about slavery
Ultimately, though, the sole motivating force was defense of slavery. Lincoln wanted to keep the union together but that required addressing the thing that split it apart, which was slavery, and ultimately that's something he did. But that's Lincoln.
The CSA's leaders and generals had to justify, at least to themselves, their continued war operations even as the war was destroying their new (fake) country. The only thing they had that motivated them so much was slavery. they were not shy about saying so and they said it consistently.
Trying to get technical over what the war was really about only confuses the matter. The South was determined to do anything it could to preserve slavery, whether forcing it on the Northern states or refusing to acknowledge the validity of the federal government, and all of those things were ultimately going to lead to war.
"States' rights", here, is a nonsense justification for the war (and before the war, for slavery) and not the justification the South gave for engaging in war to begin with just as "secession" is. It was always slavery that they were concerned with, and whether states rights supported slavery in the moment or opposed slavery they always sided with slavery. Here's a sampling of Jefferson Davis in 1860:
What he's saying, here, is that it's a violation of states' rights (or an establishment unequal rights) to prevent slavery in the territories and in new states. Why does what happens in a new state have anything to do with the rights of (say) Mississippi? Because if enough new free states were admitted to the union they would have enough political power to ban slavery, which is the thing that mattered.
Everyone understands the argument. This is the exactly the sort of pointless who-gives-a-shitism that the post is making fun of.
I answered that question. They wanted to secede because the federal government wasn't enforcing federal law, specifically the escaped slaves act. States were using their own courts and their own legislatures to free slaves, and the federal government was not willing to override states' rights. The states' right to own slaves was not in jeopardy at that time. The only states' right that the secessionists wanted to avail themselves of was the right to secede, which they didn't actually have.
The fact that the confederates originally wanted a federal right to own slaves is little different from them wanting states' rights to own slaves. The fact that they changed from one argument to an incompatible one, and both were about the right to own slaves is just further proof that the arguments are simply disingenuous pretext. The civil war was about the right to own slaves.
The Confederate states had a federal law enshrining slavery. They had states' rights to own slaves. At no point prior to secession did the federal government try to take a state's rights to own slave or pass federal legislation abolishing slavery. They didn't change arguments, slavery was always the priority, it was just opposing states' rights while states were freeing slaves while the federal government was supposed to try to stop them.
None of this makes the picture above wrong.
What's Daphne's response supposed to be?
I'm sorry. I see you're point. She should be saying "secede because the federal government won't enforce slavery." Very different, and the picture above is totally wrong.
No worries, I could have been clearer and more direct, and there are enough people who want to defend the Confederacy on the internet that it's a reflexive action to argue with anyone who seems to be pushing "alternative history." So I can't really blame you for questioning me. Stay vigilant, bigots don't fight fair.
Dude, I was just following this whole argument being like, he hasn't said anything wrong... Yet....
Thanks for not being a bigot!
I get that. This is a subject where typically, anyone trying to discuss the "nuance" is really just an apologist trying to veil their bigotry.