this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
97 points (99.0% liked)
World News
1957 readers
312 users here now
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Some of them literally are, and if NATO wins they will most likely got thrown in even worse nightmare than in 90's because right now natoids openly speaks about balkanisation, setting up warlords and genocide.
The Donbas is not Russian land, and that is entirely irrelevant to this situation.
I’m sure leaders in ivory towers discriminating against gay people in Moscow will help the people of Donbas best NATO! Wooo!
Donbas was Russian for centuries, and certainly wasn't Ukrainian, until Lenin intervened and told them to shut up when they didn't wanted to belong to Ukraine (rare but severe Lenin L), and even then only on paper since they tried to secede two or three times since.
And i don't even understand your point. If you want to be so blunt and reductive, you could say the same about Gaza where LGBT situation is not all roses too. Are we only supposed to support people below certain threshold of military power or numerical disadvantage? Why Russia is so much worse than Iran, DPRK or all other socially conservative countries which we do support more or less critically?
It is precisely what is currently happening.
Imagine going out of your way to justify reactionary homophobic policies. Did you forget the entire fucking point of critical support?
Also it’s good to know that Donbas was Russian for centuries. To bad Lenin’s terrible decision can’t be changed on a dime, because that’s not how international law works.
Again, how is the suffering of the people of Donbas at all related to this situation? What the hell are you talking about? How will this help them? You’ve brought up something so bizarre irrelevant to try and justify this that it’s comical.
Lenin wanted self-determination of Ukraine, respecting that Donbass is 90% Russian and them wanting to secede and being stopped by nazi-death azov miltias with western bombs was what started this whole mess. The Donbas war is directly linked to the repression of LGBT+ people, you misunderstand the propoganda and rhetoric going on involved with this war.
Why do you think Zelensky, the president of a country that untill very recently banned LGBT+ people from existance was dressing in drag while Ukraine was bombing the donbass? Why do you think they apparently legalized gay marriage, yet have nazi battalions beating up and bombing lgbt+ meetings still? They want to spur a reaction in Russia, because in turn it poisons the well for western support like it clearly has done for you and others in this thread.
None of the concessions Ukraine made to LGBT+ comrades has been sincere, and it has been at the knowing expense of LGBT+ comrades in both Ukraine and Russia, the only way to even begin to undo this damage is to advocate for a ceasefire and normalization of conditions in the area.
Im happy to back up any of the claims I made with sources, they are not hyperbole.
How does Ukraine’s disgusting wrongs make this correct?
The topic of the Donbas is entirely irreverent here. How does that affect or justify Russia's domestic policies?
How is anything that i've said a justification for any of this?
I clearly do not support Russias stance on this, the war has to end for it to change; you cannot just ignore the biggest infulence on there attitudes, the war from this equation.
edit: re: first question
Because ukraines disgusting wrongs created this reactionary wave against the people with nazi flags bombing people they are related too, eastern ukraine is 90% ethnic russian; Ukrainian media adpoted pink capitalism as a facade while they bombed them, they have weaponized it and you blame the targets of the weapon for responding in reaction to the images and percieved ideas of the people who kill them.
My answer is that the fastest route towards lgbt+ liberation in russia still needs to be the war ending firstly.
You aren't even coherent now, i hope you're drunk or stoned because not only you are very aggressive but don't make any sense. I will block you for now.
Good way to ignore the topic.
I’m pissed that people like you run to support Russia’s reactionary domestic policies at the drop of a hat, then try to divert the topic by talking about Donbas.
You never answered the question. How does this help the people of Donbas?
I gave you a very in detail explanation as to why this has happened, asking how this helps anyone is honestly a bad faith question; no one is suggesting these actions against LGBT+ people help anyone, we are saying that if they are to be reversed the war has to stop, as it is the primary driver of these laws being enacted.
It is not a support of Russians actions against LGBT+ people, it is a support of the working class in Donbas; we are killing them, we should stop that if we want them to share our social values.
I agree with you somewhat. But Poland has offered no such analysis, then deflected with the topic of the Donbas. I posed that question to him because I found using the suffering of the Donbas as a cover and justification was vile.
And who is “we” in this situation? Despite having travelled and lived between America and Russia, along with some of the west I do not identify with that. I am Belarusian by blood and have lived in Russia for years. That’s why I despise this, and now fear for my life. I have already faced hate crimes and discrimination, and been disowned by much of my family for being LGBT.
I cannot support this country and risk my life for the “hope” it’ll get better after the war.
This isn’t the example of the Middle East, lgbt acceptance used to be much higher during the Union years, peaking in the 70’s and early 80’s, with the collapse of the Union this changed. Putin’s government has only made it worse by using the community as a scapegoat. Rates of suicide, depression, lgbt people fleeing the country have all skyrocketed in the community. It has been made purposefully difficult to get treatment for HIV/AIDS, and lgbt people are treated like sex offenders.
Why should I support this? It’s difficult to march forward in support of the Donbass when my own life is put in extreme risk.
Im from the UK, so apologies, but when I say 'we' I do quite literally mean my own country lol; I accept this is a less relevant criticism for you.
I dont support Russia either, its a neo-liberal country. I do support the working class in Russia, and the working class in Ukraine; I recongise the real war ongoing in east ukraine since 2014 and the real grievances of them and I think in an alt world where we where friendly to Russia/the USSR and it didnt collapse LGBT+ people would be in a much better position in Ukraine and Russia.