this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023
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Hey, exciting to see people so passionate about this! The other user is correct that Apple is not involved with the processing of purchase transactions. Pulled this from LinkedIn:
Top portion is the provisioning flow, bottom portion is the purchase transaction flow. As you can see the transaction is between the customer, acquirer, card network, and issuing bank. Apple involvement not required as the card network does the work of decrypting the payment token.
So the other user’s statement that
Is accurate.
That graphic is really good. I've seen a lot of graphics that try to explain it but most of them make mistakes; that one is surprisingly perfect.
Bruh there is a giant icon that says "Apple servers" in that photo so I have no idea what you're talking about.
It's literally called "Apple Pay" and you're gonna try to convince me that Apple has nothing to do with processing payments? Not likely.
Are credit card providers also using Apple servers to not process payments? Because that is what the other user also claimed.
Yes, that is correct. As I pointed out, the top flow in the graphic is the provisioning flow, the flow by which Apple Pay payment credentials (device primary account number, DPAN) are created.
The bottom flow is a purchase transaction flow, that’s what occurs when a user is making a purchase transaction at a store. There is no involvement from Apple Pay servers in processing those transactions. Credentials are sent from the device, to the point of sale terminal, to the acquirer, to the card network, to the card issuer, and back again.
In case you’re not just trolling, I encourage you to learn more about this topic. It’s pretty cool how Apple Pay works.
At this point I vote we just consider it trolling. The best case alternative is that it's merely aggressively-protected ignorance, and that's not worth engaging with either.
Agreed. In any case, hopefully someone finds this thread informative!
Hey, OP commenter here, you have been fully correct throughout this thread. Here is an apple engineer explicitly stating that you're correct.
I work with this technology, as well as dozens of actual payments processors, every day, so I find what they're saying absurd and ... just, the strangest hill to die on.
I've tagged them as a troll. If your app allows it, I suggest you do the same.
If you remove the "provisioning flow" does the payment still get processed?
And I encourage you to Google the words "payment" and "process".
I know how it works.
I think I catch your meaning: it seems you’re arguing that provisioning is a necessary prerequisite to using Apple Pay.
While that is true that you must have set up Apple Pay in order to use Apple Pay, the provisioning flow is not part of payment processing.
A good definition of what is meant by payments processing (from Stripe):
In that process, detailed in the flow diagram from my earlier comment, Apple Pay servers do not play a role.
Ha! Well all the best to you.
No, that's not what I said. I said "provisioning" is part of the payment process. If you remove Apple Pay, there is no payment processed. Ergo Apple Pay is part of the process. This is not complicated.
I don't understand how you can write that out and then immediately turn around and tell me that Apple Pay has nothing to do with any of it, because it's describing the process of Apple Pay very clearly and succinctly.