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"You can have our blessing but only during events that don't even resemble that thing you want to be more equivalent legally to hetero couples."
This just kind of seems disingenious. Like what is he saying? You either condone their marriages or you don't.
It's not disingenious. By the official scriptures, a religious marriage is between a man and a woman. A change like the current one needs already to be accepted by the highest cardinals, that have been in history notoriously fundamentalist.
A religious marriage is still not allowed. But the receiving of an "informal" blessing for future happiness and prosperity now is.
This is a necessary step to slowly allow more, that will come with the slow redefining and adaptation to modern times of the scriptures.
people don't know about Vatican 2 where they finally change mass from Latin to whatever the local language was in FUCKING 1962. I've been to Latin masses. I thought it was cool, but I'm glad they switched. My grandpa complained the church went pop with Vatican 2.
Vatican 2: The Ecumenicalling
The scriptures don't adapt, only their interpretation.
I think I covered this with "redefining"
That's untrue, scriptures have been adapted many many times. There's no one agreed upon definition of what the Bible even is, varying significantly between different sects of Christianity, and even more as we broaden to other Abrahamic religions. There's near endless variations of the different texts. Translation, copying, and selection of which texts to include in a scripture is inevitably bound up in interpretations, they're inseparable. New ideas, biases, agendas, and shifts in meaning will work their way into the translation or copying of older texts or what sources to derive the translations from. Words don't stay the same over time in any language and are constantly shifting in meanings.
Now some religious people may say, God inspires the people who select what religious texts to use, their copying, and their translations, to ensure perfect unchanging meaning over time. But outside of invoking miracles this is an impossibility. But this is what people who take a literal interpretation of the Bible believe.
Barring miracles though, start with development and history section below if interested, but there's countless opportunities for the scriptures to have changed, and they are still changing. There's no way they couldn't, language itself wouldn't let it stay static no matter how much effort is put in to it, not even thinking of all the other factors and agendas that have changed them or what they even consist of many times over thousands of years. There's no one definitive Bible that sprang fully formed out of some vacuum, and even if that somehow occured it'd have to drift overtime with language itself.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible
Makes you wonder why God has the power to inspire people to correct issues but not the power to stop issues to begin with. Wouldn't an all knowing being know the exact problems his human pets would have?
Ranvier is completely correct. There is no definite version of the bible even if you went back to the original languages. If you add up all the text variations that are known as of today the number exceeds the number of total words in the NT. And when you add in translation issues the problem is endless. Plus all the stuff that looks like it was never in there originally, like the endings of Mark or the Adultress in John. The Bible is like a much dumber version of Wikipedia.
I don't know if you're a Catholic or not, I just want to say more generally - I don't see how any Catholic, including the pope, has the right to opine on the finer points of official scriptures while priests are raping children and the church covers it up.
For this to work you have to take on a catholic perspective. For them a marriage isn’t just a legal affirmation of partnership with tax advantages, it is a clearly defined sacrament that is explicitly for a man and a woman. They can’t just change that, it’s a defined fundamental element of the religion.
This radical change in doctrine (from a catholic perspective) is basically them trying to work around the fixed framework that has no room for interpretation, while still wanting to be more accepting. So they create a second marriage for non heterosexual couples.
As an atheist I must say this seems like a significant step. The church still has numerous flaws and isn’t for me, but I definitely commend this olive branch.
I guess I'm just cynical or something because they need to makeup a new special hang out because the old one is only for people with specific genitals. Its just weird man, that the apparent source of all love would lock it with barbed wire.
Then the religion isn't for you. It's not for me either. The fact that there are so many hoops to jump through, simply to satisfy the world's worst library of Bronze and Iron age fanfic nonsense, makes me shake my head at the whole exercise.
The fact remains though, that it's incredibly important to a lot of people, and if they want to try to square the circle in a way that tends towards justice, then I'm not going to come down hard on them. Pick your battles and whatnot.
Just look at the change that already happened. Just a good decade ago the official catholic position was that non heterosexuals are living in sin and will go to hell, they are not welcome in churches and they won’t be blessed.
Now it’s gods love shows in many ways, he should judge and not the church, and everyone who seeks to be blessed can get officially garried by them in holy gatrimony.
Is it really so bad they try to loophole to stay in line with the scripture?
No I'm happy for the change. The article says the ceremony just can't resemble a wedding. Thats what still got me. But you're right. This is good and I need to not be as cynical.
This is a straw man. The pope's decision is about a religious issue, not a legal issue.
Except married couples get legal benefits that actually matter in reality that same-sex couples don't get. So its not a strawman. It is shit that actually happens to real people.
You don't get legal beneficts from having a religious marriage. Only for a legal marriage, that is always possible unless your state is a behind hell hole
Furthermore, it has always been possible to get a religious wedding (certain churches only), even before it could be a legal marriage.
Entirely depends on where you live. Where I do, that is illegal to the extent that it simply has no value. You just don't show as married to the state, and you will get in a burocracy mess if you try to do ANYTHING as a couple
The value would be, that church considers you married in the eyes of God, irrelevant of what human laws say. Not that I believe in any such god, but I remember gay people who got married in their Quaker church, and within their spiritual circle they were treated as married like any other married couple. Of course it didn't count for anything in the secular world.
Of course meant a civil value. Of course in the religion that marriage has been practiced tp it will have its own spiritual one.
South Park covered this by calling them Butt Buddies