This comment section: "Actually I'm pretty sure the bike fell over for reasons unrelated to the stick"
Rogan and Tate are two completely different people and ideologies.
this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
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Both bad role models but Tate is way worse. Their popularity is a symptom that should make us worried.
I dont think they are good role models, but all rogan does is talk to people. Why do you guys get so mad for someone wanting to learn things and talk?
I would agree that tate is actively harming young men with the manosphere stuff, but honestly its better than a lot of the shit they hear now a days.
He does more than talk, he's peddling anti-trans propaganda, offers a bridge to the alt-right without barely any pushback.
What is the anti trans propaganda you are referring to?
I'm sure you can find it. I've seen clip of him going crazy if a trans person wins in sports.
So you are saying that because he believes trans women shouldnt compete against women that is trans propaganda? Seems like a reasonable argument that 100% of people would have believed 10 years ago.
Seems like you are ill informed. Thanks to people like Rogan. Just do better.
So are you claiming that 10 years ago peopel thought it was perfectly fair for trans-women to compete against women? I would strongly disagree.
It's been allowed for a while as long as they take HRT. It's not a perfect system but much better than discriminating. It's not a new thing, the anti-trans propaganda is.
How long do they have to be taking HRT for? And how do you know it will ever be fair based on all of the anecdotal example we have?
Have you been on Reddit lately? Every post has about 50% of comments that are incel type statements just talking about how they’ll be forever alone, they have no good traits, etc. it’s fucking pathetic
Using incel in a sentence immediately disqualifies you from any rational discussion.
Immediately disqualifying someone based on their use of a single word is instant proof that whatever you say is bullshit. Bravo.
Are you going to find someone using the n word worthy of your intellectual engagement? I doubt it.
You have my permission to shut the fuck up now. You’re just spiraling at this point.
Aye aye captain leg beard I bow to your superior gender.
The comments are quite saddening, and also quite worrying.
This isn't to put women's issues down, but men have problems too. There's a reason why young men turn to these grifters and get manipulated by them.
Even above all of that, assuming you don't agree, it's a problem. We're building up generations of uneducated and toxic men led by these role models. We can't just shrug that off and say it's not our issue, because at some point it is going to be our issue.
This is a problem that I really feel like gets no attention.
With all the focus on women’s rights, young men feel neglected. And modern feminism does imply that men can’t really talk about issues because that comes from a place of privilege.
This isn’t the only time it happened. Male victims of sexual harassment and assault were pretty much entirely shut out of #MeToo.
So, young men feel marginalized and they will listen to whoever makes sense.
And modern feminism does imply that men can’t really talk about issues because that comes from a place of privilege.
I mean yeah there are shitty feminists like there are shitty types of all people but no most modern movements of feminism that are considered seriously by academics and people concerned with gender, sexuality and politics absolutely DO not imply men can’t talk about issues. Intersectional Feminism isn’t just about empowering women, it’s about creating structures that defend and empower everybody including women.
A feminist might be exhausted from toxic masculinity and the power imbalances of men vs women in society and in the moment not respond well to you bringing up issues with men, but feminists definitely by and large do care about men and the issues they face because at the end of the day they are just the flip side of the problems women face.
It’s all part of the same problem and the only way to fix it is to take better care of each other, which includes men, it includes everyone.
Backwards thinking.
Andrew Tate isn't creating these young men out of well adjusted people.
Young men today face a mountain of issues with zero sympathy from the people or institutions around them. And grifters prey on these men.
Having grown up in the "teach boys not to rape" era of progrssive rhetoric, it's actually insane to see all these people just insist being in a guy's world is all sunshine and rainbows and all these men are just awful people falling of their own accord.
Young men get told some pretty damaging things growing up, even from progressive people.
Everyone has problems, lots of people are coming of age all kinds of fucked up, and we can't fix this by implying it's all their own doing.
I had a teacher point this out to me too by just pointing out the percentage of girls in the class. They call them the lost boy generation because good intentions to get women into paths like STEM resulted in forgetting about investing in the boys.
But also some of us boys need lots of damaging things its not a one size fits all. Not traumatizing stuff but damage is needed for boys. Boys need to be pushed and discipline and we need to break bones and fight and get dirty to become an adult who can go on to teach a new generation how to do those things safely and responsible.
I'm a stem teacher, and I work hard at trying to get more women into stem.
- More women reduce reduce the number of men but simply increase the number of subjects we teach.
- More women in stem creates normality and produces more women in stem. When we have open nights women telling women how cool and interesting the subject is excited them.
- It increases range and capacity, I have tasks that are designed to interest young men. As I started producing content that also interests women we got better and richer tasks.
- In my teaching area we moderate other teachers courses and every single teacher who whines about women in stem have boring single focused programs
- Men like courses with women. Especially if those women have similar interests
The no opportunity for males to be exceptional is a dog whistle. Stem is still there for men. There are still high standards.
The problem is a lack of men in teaching roles.
Young men have few, sometimes no, men who act as role models..for example, I get comments from students who love the fact that I have a beard and they like that a teacher is proud to present in one.
Secondly men and women have different skills socialized into them. Guys are better at exams and practical tasks while women are socialized to be better at communicating tasks. As men left education assessments moved from practicals and exams to essays.
Socialized isn't entirely correct it's also a lack of focus on the difference between how young men and women develop in primary years which also leads to skill issues
Anyway ranting on my phone sucks. More women in stem, especially in digital technology and engineering is great, women have ideas, they can solve problems, we should learn why engineering is a sausage festival instead of just assuming that it is because men are more exceptional at engineering than women.
The problem is a lack of men in teaching roles.
This is something that men will need to step up and do. We need left wing men who'll help them out. And each of us can do what we can to help the boys we know too.
I get what you are saying, but we just need men. Socially healthy, well-adjusted men. Especially in early education. Role models matter.
All true. But because teaching is historically "women's work," it is undervalued and underpaid.
Most teachers I know have at least Master's degrees, yet we're paid less than B.A.s start at in many fields. I took a 20k/year pay cut when I became a teacher, despite having received a Master's degree before entering the field.
Until we value teaching as much as we value other types of work, we're not going to attract large numbers of qualified people, whether they're men or women.
Thank you for bothering to rant on your phone despite the fact that it sucks.
I am a middle aged engineering student (undergrad) with two young daughters (6 and 8), so many of the things you refer to are on my mind a lot.
In my country (UK) the number of male teachers/carers is strongly proportional to the age of the student. Nursery staff : predominantly women Primary school staff: maybe a few men as main teachers Secondary school: is it 50/50? or still more like 70/30? (I dunno, it's a long time since I was there, and my kids aren't there yet)
Anyway, it's easy to have young boys, especially if (their father works away, or is otherwise distant from the family), get up to the age of being aware of Andrew Tate with very few male role models.