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Building bombings and 14-year-old hitmen: Organized crime overwhelms Sweden (english.elpais.com)
submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
42 comments fedilink hide all child comments
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Swede here, shit is BAD, but this is relative to how things used to be before this shit started, so in relative global terms Sweden is still a damn good place to live.

That being said, this behavior should be seen as a warning to not take culture clashes lightly.

I am sure I am going to catch a lot of heat for this, but damn it, it needs to be said.

The gangs we see are a direct result of a terribly run migration policy.

We have taken in far, far, far too many migrants in a way, way, way too short ammount of time.

This combined with a integration policy that keeps failing over and over as we continously refuse to enforce even the most basic attempt by migrants to integrate. There are many migrants who has lived in Sweden for many years without speaking either Swedish or English, they still have a right to free interpretors when dealing with doctors and government services, this is fucking mental.

We have punnishments and laws fitting Swedes from the 1960s or so, they don't do shit against the modern gangs.

So what needs to be done?

Start actually deporting criminals, log their DNA and give them a lifetime ban on returning, check all migrants against this database.

To those born in Sweden, start instituting extra long prison terms for criminals who keep reoffending.

Enforce learning the Swedish language and check compliance with in-person tests, and mandatory lessons. If you need an interpreter after 3 years, you have to pay for it yourself.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Wait, why would anyone have the right to free interpreters at any time? That sounds like such a waste of public resources and like you said, enables people to never even try to learn the language.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

As an initial concept, it is resonable to help people get the care they need even if they don't speak the language, but after 5 years of working to live here you should be expected to be able to communicate without an interpreter, even if it is not fluent.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I am down with this and even some more, except regarding having to pay for interpreters after 3 years. Working folks are hardly going to have the time to learn a whole ass language to proficiency in just 3 years, especially with kids to take care of

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I moved to France,not able to speak a word, and within 3 years, I was working in a french only environment. It's difficult, and I won't pretend that everyone will have my luck, and opportunities,but it's not unreasonable either.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago

Good for you, but an older person, especially near retiring age would not be able to pick up a language that quickly normally. Especially with the depth required to handle complex legal or medical matters, while also working full time just to make ends meet. And if on top of that, they are taking care of kids, which is a very common scenario for older migrants, that seems like too much of a stretch.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I needed over 10 yeara before I was able to communicatd "OK", 20 to be fluent in French.

Everyone isn't a language god like you.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

If you are fully immersed in another language, it shouldn't take 10 years to have a coversational skill level. It's on you.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No, saying that Swedish integration policies suck while it has taken more immigrants than it should is fine.

So are solutions, only it's a bit cruel to do that now to people already living in Sweden for many years.

So maybe enforcing learning the language (with maybe some cultural basics course) is fine, but deportations should come like 5+ years later.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Deportations, as in after commiting a crime, should be on the table instantly for violent crimes commited by migrants.

Note that I am not talking about general deportations of normal, well adjusted migrants, but migrants commiting violent crimes.

As for language and culture classes, we allready offer them for free to all migrants, Svenska För Invandrare, it is however critisized for only offering low quallity classes, which is a big problem that needs to be adressed.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Crazy how fucking over the rest of the world will bring them to you regardless...

This is dripping with racism

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How has Sweden fucked over the rest of the world?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This happened in the 1600-1700s in Europe, I am not sure that this is relates to our issues with gangs today.

But fine, how would you solve the issue with gangs in Sweden?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That's probably some ignorant American teenager thinking that every European nation had a colonial empire. I'm not sure he even tried to read that article.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Yep, feels like someone who just searched for Swedish Empire and sent the link without checking the context....

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Privatisation of our schools is largely to blame.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Not anymore than the lack of youth centers. It's a tired old myth that has no basis in reality.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Europeans are so crazy racist.

Edit: lmao, yall cant even defend yourself.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Ok, I'll bite, how would you solve the current problem with gangs in Sweden?

This is a giant clash of cultures, covering you wars and shouting "Racist" over and over will acchive nothing.

So let's hear it, how do you suggest solving the current situation?

Or have you just come to whine?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago

In America migrants just want to be as American as possible as quickly as possible. We don't have the experience to help you with this one thing. Americans also just learn Spanish for the largest foreign group between their broken English and our broken Spanish we can work out most things no need for state sponsored translators that is a ludacris idea.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How about identifying why these people are joining gangs rather than just "brown people join gangs because theyre brown"

Perhaps its because they are treated differently than their swedish compatriots or perhaps its a socioeconomic reason.

Sadly, i do not have the ability to conjecture without data. However, i can make one thing clear. Theyre not joining gangs "just because".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Perhaps it's because there was a country they could just go to without any supporting reason and live on welfare.

I live in Russia, I'm confident they'd have the same problem with Russian immigrants if there were a lot of them and if the same rules would apply to them. It's definitely not culturally superior to Syria, LOL.

Ah, and to some extent you are right, Swedes are a bit unconsciously racist, I think I've seen anonymous polls etc about "whether you'd accept your daughter marrying a ME person" with surprising results. That's a downside of non-inclusiveness being completely unacceptable in the public space, people are still racist, but there's no chain of small steps for them to become less so.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

whether you’d accept your daughter marrying a ME person

Probably because the knee jerk reaction is that ME person ≈ muslim and even aside from islam, ME cultural values are highly misogynistic and very backwards when it comes to women.

To be fair, I'd probably be similarly concerned if my hypothetical daughter was looking to marry a deeply religious christian or hindu also.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Fair, but how do you tell that from racism then?

I mean, one could treat this question as if everything else were fine with that hypothetical person, without assuming something we weren't old.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Honestly, it possibly is a bit racist - making assumptions based on probabilities and stereotypes.

I am and have been friends and coworkers with several people who were from the ME (muslim and not) and most were decent folks. There was one notable exception (ex of one of my friends) who turned out to be a real piece of work. I'd like to think that by being aware of my prejudices, I can disprove them by informing myself about people, and at least not writing them off until I've made myself aware of who they really are.

Either way, if I had a daughter, I hope I'd raise her well enough to be able to trust her to judge these sorts of things on her own once she became an adult.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Lmao what a weak bait...

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah, "bait". sweden has one of the lowest crime rates in the entire western world and this article says "overwhelms".

This is racial panic at best.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

What? Organized crime rates have steadily increased over the years compared to our neighbors. What do you even know about Sweden? You know what, fuck it I don't care, weak bait.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Only correct way to interpret all of the boomer comments

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

lol.

It's not like you offer any suggestions on how to solve the situation. You are just whining.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago

And its not like europeans are offering any solutions beyond the right-wing-US style of thinking of these people are foreign and are bad.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)

I asked Finnish colleagues what they thought of the situation in Sweden - and not just the latest events, but how the country has turned evermore violent and dangerous for the past 20 years. They told me quite unapologetically: "Well, the Swedes opened their borders wide to all kinds of people from wildly different cultural backgrounds coming from really troubled countries and the Finns haven't. Now they have the problems those people brought with them and we don't."

I'm starting to think there's some truth to this. But as a foreigner, whenever I go to Finland, the reverse - the lack of cultural diversity, the sea of whiteness and the absolute lack of non-Finnish-sounding names - is equally unsettling, rather stifling and feels genuinely bizarre sometimes.

I guess you can't have the best of both worlds...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

As a Swede, I sometimes wonder if I would feel more at home moving to one of the other Scandinavian countries - because I don't really feel at home here anymore.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

So then don't go to Finland, then you won't be unsettled. Follow me for more common sense tips.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

the reverse - the lack of cultural diversity, the sea of whiteness and the absolute lack of non-Finnish-sounding names - is equally unsettling

LOL. It's unsettling for you that people's names and faces don't entertain your weird fetish?

Go to Kenia and compare, I think it'll be even less diverse.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

China hella Chinese

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago

Which is kind of hilarious since Finland has a much higher murder rate than Sweden.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago

I guess you can’t have the best of both worlds…

Except you can, but it requires to let go of any ideas related to cultural purity or isolationism, while simultaneously not getting cold feet when it comes to turning back people who clearly can't possibly integrate.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

While I personally believe that immigration is both humane and necessary for the aging western economies, I think it's safe to say that the purely optimistic, citizenship first and questions later mentality has proven a failure.

Without rules and a culture that demands assimilation instead of parallel existence in a separate microcosm, the new citizens have difficulties identifying with the new social order they are moving into, and naturally little respect for it either. Not to mention that by corralling immigrants into ghettos the formation of parallel structures is encouraged and the native population alienated.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

While I personally believe that immigration is both humane and necessary for the aging western economies,

Oh, wow. Instead of solving the problem where people don't consider it plausible to have at least 2 children, let's bring in more people from poorer countries.

Without rules and a culture that demands assimilation instead of parallel existence in a separate microcosm,

Yeah, see, it's fine to have separate microcosms for any sane society. Just some are toxic.

It's simply about education and, yes, not letting in people you don't want.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago

I guess you can’t have the best of both worlds

Of course you can, you just have to not maintain an exclusive society, because an exclusive society depends on excluding others, and when the "others" can't be excluded anymore, that's when the full blown racism kicks in. Knowing that people see racism as some inevitability rather than a deliberate system of oppression created and imposed by individuals who benefit from its existence (if to varying degrees) is pretty fucking terrifying.

The idea that there was no crime before immigration, or that the Finns (or Nordic people in general, who all maintain a similar society and are facing similar issues with racism now that they can't maintain their white supremacist exclusivity anymore) are innocent little lambs who have never committed a crime before the brown people arrived is not only absurd, it's pretty racist and disgusting in its own right.

They love to laud themselves as the best most developed most progressive countries, but the reality is they're just a couple of decades, if not a century behind the rest of Europe when it comes to integration (this does not equal equity or equality, just integration), and are following exactly the same route as the other countries have - capitalist government and the media that supports it need a scapegoat (who they've rigged the system against so they'd have to struggle by default, living in poverty, feeling excluded, attacked for their race) to shift blame and attention to, while they continue to exploit the people of their country (the fact that there are Nordic billionaires easily contradicts any claim to socialism they might raise, and you don't need to look far to thoroughly debunk it altogether).

The fact that you're an immigrant and are seriously considering there's some truth in this racism is pretty fucking sad and scary, but mostly goes to show just how powerful the propaganda is (and how similar it is in all countries, which is probably why it hits a nerve with you even though you don't live there).