this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2024
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Back in October I bought myself a new shiny SSD to finally make the first step of leaving behind Windows.

After enquiring about which Distro to use, I settled on Fedora after being fed up with using Ubuntu in the past and feeling not close to technically skilled enough to use Arch.

The original plan was to have the SSD hold multiple Linux OS as well as a common storage that can be accessed from Windows as well as these distros.

Since I wanted to be able to dual boot multiple OS (Fedora & Tails) I choose Ventoy … Well chose is a strong word. It’s the only software for dual booting that still seems to be maintained.

While reading up on Ventoy I hit my fist snag. Ventoy does not support persistence in Tails. “Okay whatever I can deal with that later as long as I am able to store some file on common folder I’m fine” However dear reader who knows about partitioning, you will know that we are running out of space on the partition table with Ventoy, Tails and Fedora each taking up space. Once again I thought “okay whatever, I can figure that out later” and moved on to Fedora.

Now, running Fedora without persistence through Ventoy is no issue, but as soon you want persistence it gets tricky. See, Fedora cannot just with run persistence off Ventoy. It needs a boot option edited. How this is accomplished? No one even in the Ventoy Forum could tell me. and I felt waaay in over my head when I started reading up on Grub and how to edit the Bootloader files I find somewhere while digging through the ISO with 7zip. So I started reading up what this “selinux” option even is and found out that, I should probably not disable it. to begin with.

“Oookay” I thought slightly desperate, “I guess Ventoy is off the table” Luckily, a few weeks later, I found out about Whonix. Thus, a new play formed in my head: Ditch Ventoy and Tails, part the SSD to make it usable as a normal file storage and keep the other partition with persistent Fedora with Whonix. “Okay, that seems already waaay easier. I installed Ubuntu before from a VM to USB Sticks for school, I can do the same with Fedora. I’m basically already on the finishing straight”

Well no. Turns out, running a VM comes with its own snags. Like how VMware really is only working great if you buy a licence or the fact that Virtualbx automatically set’s the USB Standard of each VM to USB 2.0 meaning you will need to reboot the live OS to make the SSD running under 3.0 visible for installation. There goes another 20 minutes down the drain.

After fiddling around with the partition manager in Fedora and reading up on the documentation surrounding this issue (and finding out that it is more than 15(!) Version behind the current setup (it was a nice read tho)) another slap happened, to my already failing believe that this project would work out. Partitioning the SSD with a home, boot, swap and EFI System Partition, can leave enough space on the Disk but no extra space on the partition table.
“Well, guess I have to mount a LVM Partiton somewhere” I thought and moved on in the hope to at least get Fedora finally running on the SSD. But alas, my BIOS just decided to throw the most generic error ever.

Upon searching the web I found about this bug which apparently has been open since Fedora 37. So on the chance of me having said issue because of this bug, I got Fedora 36 and repeated the steps of creating a VM (don’t forget about that USB2 issue, or you will lose 20 minutes again) and installing it on the SSD. Presumably because I have an unmaintained version of Fedora which is 3 version behind the current one, installing Fedora on the SSD took more than an hour. (opposed to the 30 minutes it took me with 38.)

And after all that hassle? Still nothing. I still get that Bios Error and I still can’t run Fedora, and I have to say I’m sick and tired of it. I’m not a complete idiot (in most ways of life) but I cannot for the love of me figure out how I will ever get this to work. Or how the average user (who, let’s assume for the sake of my argument, is also not a complete idiot) is supposed to make this work. The hoops I jumped through, the hours of time wasted waiting for a status bar to update, the time spent googling and reading up on seemingly obscure issues, no average user wants to do this. It’s utopian to assume “oh users will just switch if Microsoft just does this or that stupid thing”. Whatever will happen, these users will not come in troves to Linux. This experience, which I can only describe as “running blind through a mirror maze” is masochistic. And I can’t do it any more. Maybe six months down the road, when brain damage finally has me forgotten the headache this journey has caused, I will pick this project up again. For now, I just really needed to write this rant, or I fear this day spent troubleshooting was for nothing.

Edit: Thank you to everybody for reading through my, I gotta say now, quite ignorant, post. Also thank you to most posters. Most comments were quite helpful and kind.

A few things that I might not have explained the best way.

The goal of the project was threefold:

•Have a removable drive with Linux on to slowly ease myself into this new OS while still having Windows as a fallback on the laptop

•Have it also work as a normal storage drive in the windows environment. (preferably without seeing any Linux folders in Window explorer)

•Have some kind of secure privacy option available to browse Anna's archive for ebooks.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Whatever will happen, these users will not come in troves to Linux

users also not going to try install 3 different linux distros at tde same time

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

To be fair, most users are just gonna go the new user route. Download the Fedora media writer, set it to download and flash Fedora, boot to the stick and install.

I was a decent ways into my Linux experience before I learnt about Ventoy, but I don't use it as I prefer flashing a whole ISO. There's no hand-holding once you leave Mac or Windows, so you have to count points of failure yourself, Ventoy wasn't worth it.

I suggest you take the normal new user path, and after that start trying things. Learn to walk before you try running :)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Just a quick thought. These days you can create a special partition in the first part of your drive and just boot from it. No grub, no config really. You might want to take a look at EFI and an EFI system partition perhaps?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Well I was thinking I was doing it when I installed Fedora through the Fedora Media writer 😅 The Grub rabbit hole really just came after I tried to figure out how I could get that boot option to work that Ventoy required

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The fedora media writer creates installation media… you still need to actually install it. Ventoy is also for booting installation media or a live system.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Suggestion :

  • Use Tails like it was meant to be : from a USB stick only, with persistent storage.
  • Install Fedora on your computer.
  • Use Ventoy one time as live Linux for installation start help and then stored safely in the back of your closet. For a beginning Linux user it makes sense to avoid dual-boot configurations. Hope it works out fine!
[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago

• I explicitly wanted to not have yet another USB. I still think Whonix will work will be enough for what I need :) • Can't fully commit to Linux yet. I still need Windows for work. • Thank you for the advice :)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

I have barely any experience yet I set a super high goal and am surprised when stuff breaks.

There, fify. Jokes aside, good you tried.

If you really want to ditch windows I suggest something easy like mint or pop_os (which I use on my nvidia laptop). Its important to learn the differnces and get used to the OS before learning tons of new stuff.

Most important thing to learn imo: there are two really noteworthy DEs (Desktop Environments), gnome and kde plasma. The rest imo is more or less similar to either of these, at least imo.

The only thing a normal user really interacts with most of the time are DEs. So the are no reason to choose a distro over another.

The distro itself often isnt really different either. Most defferences will come down to how the tasks are performed (ie systemd) and packages/package management.

Debian based distros work well for beginners from what I see (except debian itself imo). Debian, ununtu, mint and pop come from the same roots. Especially debian stable isnt something I can recommend atm but you do you. I use debian on my desktop with kde and nvidia and it fkin sucks without tinkering. I think kde isnt in a great spot atm with nvidia as they also dont support the proprietary drivers on kde neon (ubuntu based).

I personally have no exp with fedora so I cant really comment on that.

Arch has been a great learning experience but it was too much for me as a daily so I left it on a vm. I might come back to it at some point.

Good luck.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Back in October I bought myself a new shiny SSD to finally make the first step of leaving behind Windows.

Neat.

I settled on Fedora after being fed up with using Ubuntu in the past and feeling not close to technically skilled enough to use Arch.

That's fair.

The original plan was to have the SSD hold multiple Linux OS as well as a common storage that can be accessed from Windows as well as these distros.

Um. multiple Linux OS's?

I choose Ventoy … Well chose is a strong word. It’s the only software for dual booting that still seems to be maintained.

Wait.. What?

I installed Ubuntu before from a VM to USB Sticks for school, I can do the same with Fedora. I’m basically already on the finishing straight”

Using VMs to what? Why?

begins to blame Linux

My friend - you took the hard path here for somebody not "technical enough for Arch". Dual-booting is tricky to begin with nevermind doing so with Windows and external media involved. I don't know why you were even messing around with Ventoy or VMs to begin with. What problem were they solving? Why not use the LiveUSB installer?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Um. multiple Linux OS's?

I fcked up with the terminology there. Should be Distro's 🙈

Using VMs to what? Why?

I thought I could take the ISO, run it as a live media from the VM and then install the Distro onto the SSD using the media creation tool that pop's up first thing after starting it. That's at least how I remembered doing it back in the day for the Ubuntu sticks I created back in school

My friend - you took the hard path here for somebody not "technical enough for Arch". Dual-booting is tricky to begin with nevermind doing so with Windows and external media involved.

When I started in October I had the innocent belief I could just read through the documentation and I could get it to work.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I fcked up with the terminology there. Should be Distro’s 🙈

No - I was reacting to going from "Fedora" to "More than one distro". Scope creep...

I thought I could take the ISO, run it as a live media from the VM and then install the Distro onto the SSD using the media creation tool that pop’s up first thing after starting it. That’s at least how I remembered doing it back in the day for the Ubuntu sticks I created back in school

Did you even try just booting the ISO directly? Why involve a VM at all? The VM will likely use different boot methods than your computer. If it uses a BIOS and you have UEFI then that's just doomed.

When I started in October I had the innocent belief I could just read through the documentation and I could get it to work.

Did you though? What instructions began with "Install VirtualBox"?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Did you though? What instructions began with "Install VirtualBox"?

None 🙈 I just assumed I could replace the USB I would need for a live media.

Did you even try just booting the ISO directly?

I was under the impression just slapping the ISO onto the USB and trying to run from the boot menu selector would not work.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You can't copy the iso on if that's what you mean, but yes, you just flash the iso onto a USB just like windows. Also, were you installing on an internal ssd or did you want a live bootable stick?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago

I was installing on an external ssd. So basically a live bootable ssd

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Don't think you need ventoy features, install fedora in a suitable partition, install your next os afterwards in another partition and don't install grub, boot back into fedora, update grub, it'll find the new os and give you a list to boot from on startup.

Why did you choose ventoy?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (3 children)

The SSD is external and I wanted to boot into multiple Linux Distros. It seems like Ventoy is the only one to allow me that without relying on the windows bootloader on my laptop

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

An EFI system partition on the SSD can be shared by multiple distributions. A single grub instance on that EFI system partition can boot multiple distributions. Ventoy is really not meant for what you’re trying to use it for.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

So I assumed the SSD was internal but it is external and there is also a Windows installation involved (Apologies for not reading your long post slowly and carefully). I have a whole bunch of USB sticks here. One has Ventoy with several Linux iso files on them. A few others are for BSD or something else. I'd like to suggest once again to buy another small USB stick and use Tails on that to learn some more Linux while everything else is still safe. Easy peasy and no rocket science involved 🙂 Then later figure out the Windows/Fedora dual boot.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

You are lost, you use ventoy on a seperate usb. Then you can install whatever distro on your portable ssd. You can install multiple as long as your partition things well. It's not that difficult. You could have asked here instead of going on a rollercoaster of weird self-imposed problems.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

running ventoy on a portable ssd is so wacky lol, I love it

really hope you can get this to work