this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
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Need this nationwide. I hate having fees added on to the price of what I'm ordering.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Fees are predatory on people who are swayed by lower advertised cost. Basically, they are extorting the way many people's brains work. It's just another way to keep the not rich from ever catching up. Not just in dollars, but time. If you try to price compare, you have to sink a ton of time into uncovering all the fees. The rich just don't have to worry about that. So it ends up as a time tax.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It's called a Bait and Switch and is a form of Fraud.

It's just that in the US, the grey area between Fraud and "Sharp business practice" is legally way broader than the rest of the Developed World.

Kudos to California to have forces some clarification on at least this one form of misrepresentation/false-advertising/fraud.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I agree that these fees are bad and I hate them, but couldn't you make the opposite argument that they serve as a (money) tax on the rich? Poor people will take the time to shop around for the best deal, whereas rich people will simply pay whatever for the product they want. Therefore hidden fees disproportionately are paid by the rich.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Genuinely poor people rarelly have the time to shop around.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I realize when I go out for a special event, like I did Friday night to see Harry Connick, Jr. play with the Boston Pops at Symphony Hall that I wasn't going to quibble about costs.

However, after the non-optional 18% "gratuity", they also had an additional "server" tip field. Ha, GFY, bitches!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

At that point just increase the price of menu items and pay people what their worth instead of lying about the final bill

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Sorry, that's just for the developed world.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (5 children)

We need European pricing where the price is the price. I would go as far as making asking for a tip illegal too. Have restaurants put on their menu that prices include the tip. Raise minimum wage for restaurant workers.

And not just for restaurants, everything, from airline tickets to concert tickets, etc.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I think clear signage and message on the bill indicating "tipping is optional, service charges is included in the menu price" should suffice.

Making tipping illegal goes too far, but I am okay with implementing it for couple decades, in order to correct a bad habit.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (12 children)

Only fees that are entirely optional — like leaving a tip for staff — can be left out of the posted price.

Wrong move. They should have outlawed tipping too. No more hiring for shit wages and leaving adequate compensation up to chance. Bump up the menu price and pay your staff an enticing salary.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Agreed. I hate tipping. Some tippers will hate for tipping to go away because they can use their charisma to make a lot of money. More power to them but tipping is just a way for these businesses to keep their labor low. Many other countries don't have tipping and can still have restaurants. For some reason the US needs tipping to be able to have restaurants.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (6 children)

A restaurant in my area recently put up signs saying they pay their staff a living wage, raised prices, and forbaid tips. More like this, please.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Meanwhile, most places in London pay at least the minimum wage (not lower for waitstaff, but not necessarily living wage) and tack on an optional 12-20% service charge, and don’t give it to staff.

You have to determine if the service charge goes to staff, awkwardly refuse the service charge, and (optionally) tip your waitstaff in cash (and if you do, ask they split it with back of house)

The times we’ve done it seems to make the staff happy. Still a shit thing to do.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

A few places in Seattle experimented with different ways to go tipping when the city raised the minimum wage across the board without making an exception for tipped wages. A few forbade tipping a few had a standardized tip percentage. A few had a surcharge added on. Many made it clear how they did it. Shitheads like Tom Douglas did not make it clear and added a 4% charge on the bill noting that it was a living wage fee. I don't go to the ones who were shady about it. Largely it has all returned to standard typing. There are a few coffee shops like Seattle Coffee Works and an ice cream shop (Mollie Moon's) that do not allow tips.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm not a California resident but once on a visit I ate at a place. Paid the bill. No tip. Left. The shopkeeper chased me on the street to catch up and ask why I didn't tip, and wasn't the food good, etc. Embarrassed, I was with a friend who is a resident.. I told her yes it was fine. "Then why no tip?!" Internally: Because it's a tip? I didnt get some kind of exceptional service there. If anything they left us alone really. So what was I tipping for exactly? why not just charge a different price, etc. Externally: "Oh I'm sorry. I didn't know"

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Agreed, but let’s not let perfect be the enemy of good here.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Agreed, but overall a good move to address separate and much simpler issue of predatory pricing (for the customer)

Heading to mother's day lunch right now, set menu for $89 per person. Except it's a 10% surcharge on Sundays, the only day that mother's day is, so that price isnt really true at all.

This in Aus which I'd normally argue has better common-sense policies such as requiring sales tax in the menu price

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Isn't it fun how "the price should just be the price" makes you a filthy commie in 2024?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Do it like in Europe. Prices are all inclusive, any kind of tip is just a thank you for outstanding service, and not a necessity so the waitress won't starve.

It is a sales business with service, like buying clothes. Can you imagine having to tip the salesperson in a boutique?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Same in colombia. The price advertised is the price you pay. No need to calculate the tax in your head in the grocery store, just add everything and you’re golden.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (3 children)

It really depends on the country. France and Belgium, as you wrote. Germany, they expect a tip and look at you angry if you don't. Italy, they add a service charge at the end that is nowhete advertised. Turkey, they invent a random price at the end, complaints only taken if you're local. (I'm slightly exaggerating)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

In Germany it's typical to do so just to make the change easier, you might catch an angry glance by making them make small change.

Italy will list a coperto or servizio on the menu.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The restaurant owner arguments are all super weak as usual.

"Menu prices will rise!"

No shit, but everyone was already paying the prices but now you can't just surprise patrons with the increase.

"There will be pullback. People will lose jobs and hours!"

Doubtful but even if true, that means that they knew they were lying to customers and clawing extra charges that they wouldn't know about already.

"'They' are thinking restaurants will absorb the costs"

Not exactly but they will have to compete with pricing as it should be.

They're just trying to get away with playing the same game Telcos have gotten away with for far too many decades.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

That's what pisses me off, if the consumer knows what they'll actually have to pay they won't buy.

They are arguing that they should be able to lie to the consumer and trick them. They think the consumer shouldn't be informed to make a decision on what is right for them. And once again, they are putting the business before the customer.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'd really love it if they did like some countries and added the sales tax(es) to the sticker price in stores too

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

There are a lot of things I wished they did similar to other countries such as VAT. Hiding all these fees seems deceptive from both the business and the govt sneaking in their taxes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

One step closer to the fucking common sense of the rest of the world where the price you see for something is the price you actually pay. Nobody cares about a number that's mathematically related to the price they have to pay, just tell me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Minnesota is currently working on a similar law to stop surcharges and just have a final price.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

4oz smashed patty $17

Add bun $1

Add cheese $2-$4

Add $1: lettuce, tomato, onion

Add $3: grilled onion, any sauce

Add $7: sauteed onionz melted cheese, sauce +bechamel, fried egg, kimchi

Add $17: salmon

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Great, now do tipping next.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Article is about California, where tipped employees must be paid minimum wage same as everyone else

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