this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
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if you could pick a standard format for a purpose what would it be and why?

e.g. flac for lossless audio because...

(yes you can add new categories)

summary:

  1. photos .jxl
  2. open domain image data .exr
  3. videos .av1
  4. lossless audio .flac
  5. lossy audio .opus
  6. subtitles srt/ass
  7. fonts .otf
  8. container mkv (doesnt contain .jxl)
  9. plain text utf-8 (many also say markup but disagree on the implementation)
  10. documents .odt
  11. archive files (this one is causing a bloodbath so i picked randomly) .tar.zst
  12. configuration files toml
  13. typesetting typst
  14. interchange format .ora
  15. models .gltf / .glb
  16. daw session files .dawproject
  17. otdr measurement results .xml
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[–] [email protected] 68 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (30 children)

This is the kind of thing i think about all the time so i have a few.

  • Archive files: .tar.zst
    • Produces better compression ratios than the DEFLATE compression algorithm (used by .zip and gzip/.gz) and does so faster.
    • By separating the jobs of archiving (.tar), compressing (.zst), and (if you so choose) encrypting (.gpg), .tar.zst follows the Unix philosophy of "Make each program do one thing well.".
    • .tar.xz is also very good and seems more popular (probably since it was released 6 years earlier in 2009), but, when tuned to it's maximum compression level, .tar.zst can achieve a compression ratio pretty close to LZMA (used by .tar.xz and .7z) and do it faster^1.

      zstd and xz trade blows in their compression ratio. Recompressing all packages to zstd with our options yields a total ~0.8% increase in package size on all of our packages combined, but the decompression time for all packages saw a ~1300% speedup.

  • Image files: JPEG XL/.jxl
    • "Why JPEG XL"
    • Free and open format.
    • Can handle lossy images, lossless images, images with transparency, images with layers, and animated images, giving it the potential of being a universal image format.
    • Much better quality and compression efficiency than current lossy and lossless image formats (.jpeg, .png, .gif).
    • Produces much smaller files for lossless images than AVIF^2
    • Supports much larger resolutions than AVIF's 9-megapixel limit (important for lossless images).
    • Supports up to 24-bit color depth, much more than AVIF's 12-bit color depth limit (which, to be fair, is probably good enough).
  • Videos (Codec): AV1
    • Free and open format.
    • Much more efficient than x264 (used by .mp4) and VP9^3.
  • Documents: OpenDocument / ODF / .odt

    it’s already a NATO standard for documents Because the Microsoft Word ones (.doc, .docx) are unusable outside the Microsoft Office ecosystem. I feel outraged every time I need to edit .docx file because it breaks the layout easily. And some older .doc files cannot even work with Microsoft Word.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

.tar is pretty bad as it lacks in index, making it impossible to quickly seek around in the file. The compression on top adds another layer of complication. It might still work great as tape archiver, but for sending files around the Internet it is quite horrible. It's really just getting dragged around for cargo cult reasons, not because it's good at the job it is doing.

In general I find the archive situation a little annoying, as archives are largely completely unnecessary, that's what we have directories for. But directories don't exist as far as HTML is concerned and only single files can be downloaded easily. So everything has to get packed and unpacked again, for absolutely no reason. It's a job computers should handle transparently in the background, not an explicit user action.

Many file managers try to add support for .zip and allow you to go into them like it is a folder, but that abstraction is always quite leaky and never as smooth as it should be.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)
  • By separating the jobs of archiving (.tar), compressing (.zst), and (if you so choose) encrypting (.gpg), .tar.zst follows the Unix philosophy of "Make each program do one thing well.".

wait so does it do all of those things?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago

So there's a tool called tar that creates an archive (a .tar file. Then theres a tool called zstd that can be used to compress files, including .tar files, which then becomes a .tar.zst file. And then you can encrypt your .tar.zst file using a tool called gpg, which would leave you with an encrypted, compressed .tar.zst.gpg archive.

Now, most people aren't doing everything in the terminal, so the process for most people would be pretty much the same as creating a ZIP archive.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (5 children)

By separating the jobs of archiving (.tar), compressing (.zst), and (if you so choose) encrypting (.gpg), .tar.zst follows the Unix philosophy of “Make each program do one thing well.”.

The problem here being that GnuPG does nothing really well.

Videos (Codec): AV1

  • Much more efficient than x264 (used by .mp4) and VP9[3].

AV1 is also much younger than H264 (AV1 is a specification, x264 is an implementation), and only recently have software-encoders become somewhat viable; a more apt comparison would have been AV1 to HEVC, though the latter is also somewhat old nowadays but still a competitive codec. Unfortunately currently there aren't many options to use AV1 in a very meaningful way; you can encode your own media with it, but that's about it; you can stream to YouTube, but YouTube will recode to another codec.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 11 months ago (9 children)

Open Document Standard (.odt) for all documents. In all public institutions (it's already a NATO standard for documents).

Because the Microsoft Word ones (.doc, .docx) are unusable outside the Microsoft Office ecosystem. I feel outraged every time I need to edit .docx file because it breaks the layout easily. And some older .doc files cannot even work with Microsoft Word.

Actually, IMHO, there should be some better alternative to .odt as well. Something more out of a declarative/scripted fashion like LaTeX but still WYSIWYG. LaTeX (and XeTeX, for my use cases) is too messy for me to work with, especially when a package is Byzantine. And it can be non-reproducible if I share/reuse the same document somewhere else.

Something has to be made with document files.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Markdown, asciidoc, restructuredtext are kinda like simple alternatives to LaTeX

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It is unbelievable we do not have standard document format.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago

What's messed up is that, technically, we do. Originally, OpenDocument was the ISO standard document format. But then, baffling everyone, Microsoft got the ISO to also have .docx as an ISO standard. So now we have 2 competing document standards, the second of which is simply worse.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

Bro, trying to give padding in Ms word, when you know... YOU KNOOOOW... they can convert to html. It drives me up the wall.

And don't get me started on excel.

Kill em all, I say.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Just going to leave this xkcd comic here.

Yes, you already know what it is.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (1 children)

One could say it is the standard comic for these kinds of discussions.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Literally any file format except PDF for documents that need to be edited. Fuck Adobe and fuck Acrobat

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Isn't the point of PDF that it can't (or, perhaps more accurately, shouldn't) be edited after the fact? It's supposed to be immutable.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I’m not sure if they were ever designed to be immutable, but that’s what a lot of people use it for because it’s harder to edit them. But there are programs that can edit PDFs. The main issue is I’m not aware of any free ones, and a lot of the alternatives don’t work as well as Adobe Acrobat which I hate! It’s always annoying at work when someone gets sent a document that they’re expected to edit and they don’t have an Acrobat license!

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

Unless you have explicitly digitally-signed the PDF, it's not immutable. It's maybe more-annoying to modify, but one shouldn't rely on that.

And there are ways to digitally-sign everything, though not all viewing software has incorporated signature verification.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

No, it's too preserve formatting when distributed. Editing is absolutely possible, always were, it's just annoying to parse the structure when trying to preserve the format as you make changes

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Why would you use acrobat? I haven't used it in many years and use PDFs all the time

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

zip or 7z for compressed archives. I hate that for some reason rar has become the defacto standard for piracy. It's just so bad.

The other day I saw a tar.gz containing a multipart-rar which contained an iso which contained a compressed bin file with an exe to decompress it. Soooo unnecessary.

Edit: And the decompressed game of course has all of its compressed assets in renamed zip files.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I don't give a shit which debugging format any platform picks, but if they could each pick one that every emulator reads and every compiler emits, that'd be fucking great.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (8 children)

Even more simpler, I'd really like if we could just unify whether or not $ is needed for variables, and pick # or // for comments. I'm sick of breaking my brain when I flip between languages because of these stupid nuance inconsistencies.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

I'd setup a working group to invent something new. Many of our current formats are stuck in the past, e.g. PDF or ODF are still emulating paper, even so everybody keeps reading them on a screen. What I want to see is a standard document format that is build for the modern day Internet. HTML ain't it, as that can't handle editing well or long form documents, EPUB isn't supported by browsers, Markdown lacks a lot of features, etc. And than you have things like Google Docs, which are Internet aware, editable, shareable, but also completely proprietary and lock you into the Google ecosystem.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Epub isn't supported by browsers

So you want EPUB support in browser and you have the ultimate document file format?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It would solve the long-form document problem. It wouldn't help with the editing however. The problem with HTML as it is today, is that it has long left it's document-markup roots and turned into an app development platform, making it not really suitable for plain old documents. You'd need to cut it down to a subset of features that are necessary for documents (e.g. no Javascript), similar to how PDF/A removes features from PDF to create a more reliable and future proof format.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago (12 children)

.opus for lossy music, .flac for lossless music, .png for image files, .mkv for video

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (5 children)

All of them are OK, except mkv is less a file type and more a container. What should be specified is the code for video, which for most things I'd say AV1, but high res movies might not be the most suitable. Throw in opus for the audio track, and you can use mkv, but might as well use webm anyways since it's more clear what's behind it. (though can still be other things)

I'd also add that jxl should be the standard for lossy images. Better than jpg. And you want something other than png for massive images because that quickly gets costly in terms of size due to png being lossless.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (4 children)

SQLite for all “I’m going to write my own binary format because I is haxor” jobs.

There are some specific cases where SQLite isn’t appropriate (streaming). But broadly it fits in 99% of cases.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (21 children)

Ogg Opus for all lossy audio compression (mp3 needs to die)

7z or tar.zst for general purpose compression (zip and rar need to die)

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

.gltf/.glb for models. It's way less of a headache than .obj and .dae, while also being way more feature rich than either.

Either that or .blend, because some things other than blender already support it and it'd make my life so much easier.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago

UTF-8 for plain text, trying to figure out the encoding, especially with older files/equipment/software is super annoying.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Resume information. There have been several attempts, but none have become an accepted standard.

When I was a consultant, this was the one standard I longed for the most. A data file where I could put all of my information, and then filter and format it for each application. But ultimately, I wanted to be able to submit the information in a standardised format - without having to re-enter it endlessly into crappy web forms.

I think things have gotten better today, but at the cost of a reliance on a monopoly (LinkedIn). And I'm not still in that sort of job market. But I think that desire was so strong it'll last me until I'm in my grave.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I don't know what to pick, but something else than PDF for the task of transferring documents between multiple systems. And yes, I know, PDF has it's strengths and there's a reason why it's so widely used, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

Additionally all proprietary formats, specially ones who have gained enough users so that they're treated like a standard or requirement if you want to work with X.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

I would be fine with PDFs exactly the same except Adobe doesn't exist and neither does Acrobat.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (7 children)

I wish there was a more standardized open format for documents. And more people and software should use markdown/.md because you just don't need anything fancier for most types of documents.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (4 children)

matroska for media, we already have MKA for audio and MKV for video. An image container would be good too.

mp4 is more prone to data loss and slower to parse, while also being less flexible, despite this it seems to be a sort of pseudo standard.

(MP4, M4A, HEIF formats like heic, avif)

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

JPEG XL for images because it compresses better than JPEG, PNG and WEBP most of the time.

XZ because it theoretically offers the highest compression ratio in most circumstances, and long decompression time isn't really an issue when the alternative is downloading a larger file over a slow connection.

Config files stored as serialized data structures instead of in plain text. This speeds up read times and removes the possibility of syntax or type errors. Also, fuck JSON.

I wish there were a good format for typesetting. Docx is closed and inflexible. LaTeX is unreadable, inefficient to type and hard to learn due to the inconsistencies that arise from its reliance on third-party packages and its lack of guidelines for their design.

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