sudneo

Nftables is the modern iptables FYI. Linux firewall.

Thanks for the head's up!

Or Albanians, Romanians and other people with a history of migration (at least in Italy).

That said, the racist dynamics in Italy are still different from those of a country with a much different history, linked to slavery and colonialism (thankfully Italian empire was a ridiculously failed attempt), with a different racial distribution in population. African migrants are for example a relatively new phenomenon. We are now at the 2nd generation give or take, and I have the feeling things will normalize ad they did for balcan people, as long as right-wing governments will not sabotage immigration on purpose to maintain it as a problem and gather votes...

The "hunt" for the white man refers to her search for a white guy as a vice-president that can appeal to the "wasp" population. It's a reference to western movies. The article is fully on her search for a vice-president and the "real" motivations for her choice.

Are you misunderstanding my argument on purpose?

You and I both know that testosterone is not the only thing. There are people who have different sensitivity (low reception) to it, for example, then there is the problem that testosterone (and probably other stuff too!) has an historical effect on development that is not captured by a snapshot in time. I am not strawmanning, I simply assumed that since both of us know that testosterone level at time T is insufficient data, you would need at least more parameters to make fair categories. If that's not the case and you actually meant just using testosterone level and weight, than I think this is a bad idea. Actually, I think this is worse than the sex categorisation. This way you are 100% bundling together people with high T and low reception (I.e. didn't get most of the benefits) with people with low T and high reception. You are also exposing yourself to men artificially lowering testosterone levels after having gotten all the historical developmental advantages to compete in "lower" categories (similarly to how it happens today with weight).

They are only "corner cases" because you define gender as red and yellow and thus leave out orange, green, and purple.

No, I don't. They are corner cases because we can look at the reality and observe that this is a problem with a relative small incidence. I think your proposal will present way more corner cases and problematic situations.

Swimming is not one of them for fucking sake.

Are you done dancing around rethoric arguments to avoid saying that you were wrong?

Comparing the performance of a non specialized teenager swimmer with that of a specialized adult woman in peak adult performance is a shitty comparison.

This is a fact that can be easily confirmed if you do 10 seconds of research and you check swimming records by age category.

It's fine, you used as source an article that made this claim based on shitty data, you have been shown that the data was shitty. The mature thing to do is to say "OK, that was a false claim".

I give up. You have tons of data available that you can still compare from Olympic games that just happened. I specifically didn't mention "every sport ever invented", but I mentioned "most sports" and you quote something that is supposed to prove...what? Lol

Nevermind. Continue living in a fantasy world in which Phelps swims slower than Ledecky (at 15, but who cares?!), because denying reality is a great way to approach problems.

You see how when you demand orange not exist, and that’s apparently “good enough” for you, that it doesn’t represent reality?

I am saying that it's better to have 10 corner cases that can be dealt with than 2000 corner cases.

It’s often the way sports are designed that keep women out intentionally

I am really curious how you would design running in a way that having stronger muscle doesn't help, or combat sports in a way that power doesn't help etc. Also, women have their own category with almost in all cases same rules. How does this keep women out?

hmm don’t be so confident about that.

Go check all time-trial based sports, let me know if any women would have won anything.

but instead the sport should adapt and sort athletes by T levels if it truly matters

I may even agree with you here, but I think this is going to be a nightmare. Continuous testing, plus, while sex is a proxy for many attributes at once, testosterone is only one. Then you need many more parameters to compare and create categories, on a global scale. This assuming we actually understand such parameters well enough.

Men shouldn’t be getting hurt by other men with higher testosterone, either.

I guess the difference between low testosterone men (assuming there are many in high competition levels) and high ones is smaller than high testosterone women and low testosterone men. So yes, I agree, but this is hardly a problem in practice.

If women can get their hips over stuff, they are good, but for men it’s often their shoulders. If women run the course a little differently, they can often do really well.

I really don't see how you could do this in most sports and make it fair and interesting. Sure, you jumped 20cm lower, here is your gold medal because there is an estimated disadvantage for you of 25cm. Yes, you arrived 45s after, here is your gold medal. It seems like a terrible idea and even harder to implement in sports with points (football, tennis, volleyball etc.). Considering the relative low amount of "corner cases", keeping sex as a category seems more reasonable imho, although with its limits. I am interested in what women athletes think.

That’s not because they are “worse” athletes, they are just athletes different than men.

There is nothing moral behind "worse". There are differences that simply provide advantages to men and make them faster/stronger/taller which is an advantage in many sports.

Me: the boundary for yellow and red is arbitrary and visible light exists on a continuum anyway!

Actually me:

This is not binary, it’s a scale, and at some point there is a limit that is fixed in the rules.

I fully recognize that this is arbitrary, I fully recognize that any "limit" is somewhat arbitrary. The only difference is that I acknowledge that sex is a "good enough" proxy for now.

I still don't understand how would you avoid that women will never see a medal again in any combat sport, athletics, swimming, tennis and many other sports if you stop using sex as a category. What categories would you use, and are they pragmatic enough that they can be implemented easily?

Testosterone isn’t an advantage for every sport,

Is it for boxing?

because it comes with a cost including lower lifespan

How is this relevant when you look at advantages in a single competition? This is not a "is it good in life"-situation.

Height isn’t that important for swimming or even running

hence it doesn't have a separate category? BTW, swimmers are taller than average, because being tall is generally ad advantage. It's one of many factors, but it's there.

The way many sports are designed gives testosterone dominant people an advantage. That’s patriarchy for ya.

This seems...unlikely. I would say that combat sports have not been "designed" with this in mind, and many other sports are done in the only way they could: swim as fast as you can, run as fast as you can, jump as high/far/etc. as you can.

Lactic acid is not related to gender, that’s my point.

Then you should understand my answer: it doesn't break the boundary of established categories.

But you clearly believe in gender determinism and think sex chromosomes make up a huge part of genetic makeup when it is quite tiny.

Are you a medium? Do you read my mind on arbitrary topics? Can you give me 6 numbers for next lottery?

Jokes aside, I didn't talk about chromosomes, I didn't talk about testosterone (only once you brought it up), I specifically referred to functional difference, whatever the origin, and also mentioned that the reality is not so easy (not binary).

My criticism is that categories based on gender are unscientific.

Perfect, this is a completely separate discussion, one I might agree with even. I wouldn't know how to make it better, it's not my area of expertise. What I know is that in many sports women holding record would barely qualify if they were to compete against males, and I think that would not be fun nor fair for anybody. I also think that in combat sports that would be potentially dangerous. Happy to see alternatives in the future.

I think the point was that humans come from Africa (as in, as a species).