Also putting quotes around "indigenous" to imply there's no settler colonial relation
this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
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GenZedong
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The ML line is wrong here.
Hate to tell you this but you're choosing to stand contrary to the international Palestinian liberation movement on the side of the ultra-Left. I get it but that's the way is at this point and time.
I don't care. Right and wrong aren't determined by sides. Israel has no right to any part of Palestine except might. If you want us to accept might is right then it is separate argument.
You are more than entitled to your opinion, I am simply informing you that it runs contrary to the concrete objectives set by both the Palestinian liberation movement and the Communist international movement as far as I am aware of them at this current time.
The PLO doesn’t speak for all Palestinians. All Palestinians I have ever known reject the UN partition plan.
What organization or coalition speaks for all Palestinians that stands in antagonism to the PLO and reject the U.N partition plan?
They don’t have to be organized to have an opinion or a right. I don’t know what organization today can represent this. But Palestinians want to free all of Palestine not just their halfway state per UN plan.
The moral choice for anti imperialists should be a complete rejection of Zionism and the 2-state solution. Whether realistic or not shouldn’t be a question. The Palestinians may accept compromises today because the reality forced them to. The UN partition plan was forced on Palestinians.
With respect to your lived experiences, I simply no longer find this conversation fruitful as your statement is too amorphous for me to engage with it with the ernesty you deserve.
This concludes our conversation. May you go in peace.
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
Decolonisation = ultra left 🥴 PFLP supports single secular state, Hamas said they would accept 1967 borders but it's by no means ideal for them.
PLO and Hamas both recognize the difference between Utopian idealism and concrete reality of what is currently unachievable and what is currently achievable
It isn't utopian idealism. There will be no justice until there is a single, secular state in which Palestinian refugees across the world can have the right of return
It currently is as it does not address current concrete conditions that are known in more intimate detail by the people present in the region.
They know better than us as it is their lived experience that we must let guide our hands and not our fantasies that we dictate to them from above.
Do you think people in Gaza don't want the Zionist entity to be dismantled in it's entirety? The only way to end the antagonism of settler colonialism is to overthrow the perpetrators, otherwise it will end up in the same place indigenous Americans are
With what state? What army, airforce, navy? The only way that can be seen forwards from the current crisis is for Palestine to regain their footing in the internationally agreed upon two-state solution. Would you deny the Palestinian people righteous relief from the concentration camps and their right to rebuild their state and determine their path from there?
Do not think that I am blind to the inherent contradiction that lies at the heart of the existence of the Fascist government they are currently locked in a struggle with right now, that at the given opportunity they would achieve their own one state solution through genocidal ethnic cleansing. The contrast between us right now is whether or not we are keeping our eyes on concrete, achieveable objectives that can be worked towards with concrete human beings composed of flesh and blood vs ephemeral objectives being worked towards with ethereal beings that are revolutionary from head to toe.
We communists must have concrete revolutionary policies, and not politics of theatrical revolutionary gestures.
I would absolutely support a 2 state solution as the first step in advancement of Palestinian regional power. It would not tackle the fundamental issue however, nor do I even remotely believe Israel would give up their west bank settlements and give the Palestinians a state willingly.
I am glad we are in mostly agreement. I also have zero faith in the fascist state willingly conceeding their ill-gotten gains they've snatched into their jaws, but through the work of the brave revolutionary guerrillas fighting on the ground, and the work of revolutionary peace activists across the far corners of the earth continue to work in tandem step then those jaws will relent and the most joyous first step of national liberation shall be achieved.
From there the future becomes more theoretical and unpredictable, but one thing I would say for certain is that the Palestinian state at that future time must emulate the Soviet Union in a race to rebuild and prepare for a likely greater darker force of reaction.
No doubt. Free palestine.