this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2023
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I like nuclear power, but I wonder if it might be better to replace the internal combustion engines of cargo ships with gigantic sails instead of nuclear reactors. It might increase the duration of a route, but then it might be possible to compensate by running more, smaller ships.
Another possible innovation would be people onboard to row
Advertise it as a new fitness program that includes seeing the world for free.
Just drain the seas and drive them around on big tank tracks
Yeah but where to put all that water? On the moon?
If we can make the world hot enough it'll just become clouds
You… you know that clouds… rain, right?
I thought that was bebe Jesus crying when I touch myself
Just flush it down a big toilet
Nuclear powered trains with railroads across the ocean.
Hey I've seen that movie, it was fictional. Let's not make it real.
A tethered ring would be cheaper, and also possible
With the labor shortage these days, we'll definitely have people coming forward!
Have them down below on exercise bikes like little hamsters.
This is also being tried. The first such ship set sail recently.
I've only heard of big kites being used to help reduce fuel consumption on cargo ships. If you have a link to an example of a cargo ship that uses the wind as its primary power source, please share it.
https://trendydigests.com/2023/12/20/wind-powered-cargo-ship-sets-sail-on-historic-voyage-2/
Keep in mind that "primary" power source isn't going to happen. You're not moving modern cargo loads on wind power alone. But it can provide supplementary power, reducing fuel usage.
Is there a hard theoretical limit to the capacity of a primarily wind powered ship?
My understanding is that like most things you start running into issues with a) how mass scales (so at a certain point you start adding more mass of sails to push the mass of sails you added to push the mass of...) and b) structural integrity (ie, you can't just make a sky scraper taller by doubling all the dimensions; at some point steel just isn't strong enough).
There's also the issue of speed; no matter how many sails you add, the wind only goes so fast, and it doesn't go reliably. Modern shipping has deadlines and no one is going to settle for "We got becalmed" or "We lost two months because we were tacking into headwinds the whole time".
Yeah, I see what you mean. It's hard to imagine what 59.3MW of sail would look like, to match the power of the Ever Given for example, but that's equivalent to too many wind turbines to reasonably fit on such a vessel. I'm just concerned that international shipping isn't the best use of our capacity to manufacture nuclear power reactors. Cargo ships do a lot of waiting around, so a nuclear reactor might do a better job on land replacing a coal fired plant.
As for shipping speed, maybe it would be good to just go back to those lower expectations. Maybe we shouldn't be getting the things we need in a hurry from overseas. Overseas freight is kind of insane compared to just using emission-free power to manufacture things closer to where they're needed instead.
I completely agree. Our approach of simply reducing emissions from our current societal and economic structures will not scale sufficiently. The problem, as always, is capitalism. We build things further away because it's cheaper. We run international shipping on ultra tight schedules and develop systems like just-in-time logistics chains because hyper-efficiency (at the cost of intense fragility) makes more money.
These structures have to be broken, or at least heavily disincentivized, in order to make real headway in combating climate change.
The first sailing transport ship set sail recently...? Can we define "recent" lol
Yeah, um. The first modern ...
An interesting alternative to sails are Flettner rotors. They're pretty much just rotating pillars, and are being tested on some cargo ships to reduce fuel consumption.
There are sailed powered logistics ships! Here's a grain ship that just launched. There are also companies that produce inflatable or deployable sails to reduce fuel consumption in favorable winds.
Ultimately there will be a need for chemical energy or similarly dense energy to move a ship. The wind doesn't always blow, and when it does it won't always be in the direction you want. Nuclear is certainly an interesting option.
This comment is just classic Lemmy. Do you think customers would accept their cargo just turning up whenever, depending on what the wind is doing? Why do you think we went away from sail in the first place?
Not to mention the air draft of such a vessel, or the fact that sails interfere with loading cargo.
They can just add sails to augment the current engines. I read somewhere years ago that it was tested and found to reduce fuel consumption by a lot.
In that case, why isn't it more common?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/technology-66543643.amp
I guess they've been working on it.