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You can get Japanese citizenship after five years of residency, somewhat surprisingly there's not even a language test. And many many Zainichi did and do.
If that is Apartheid then I don't want to know what you have to say about Estonia.
Where's the source. I've got one that says the opposite.
Apartheid too? I will say this, doubt you'll see anyone who gives a single fuck.
Like here. About 6000 naturalisations per year.
Are there issues? Yes. Is it Apartheid? If you think it is, then you are trivialising the shit out of what South Africa has done. What Israel is doing.
The Soviet Union settled plenty of people in Estonia when they occupied it, those people didn't get Estonian citizenship once Estonia got its independence, they got permanent residencies instead. A metric fuckton naturalised in the year since then, which involved learning Estonian.
Bit of a difference because Estonia was the victim of colonialism, not the aggressor, they would've been perfectly within their right to just expel everyone, but the associated identity vs. nationality stuff very much applies.
I'm with the demons and henchman.
That's a lot of things, bad things, but it's not Apartheid. Words have meaning. It's also not current.
Here the conclusion of your own source.
Definition of apartheid:
I've provided sources that prove it. Political rights deprived as well as civil. Laws enabling it.
They can, and do, become citizens. The procedure is the same as for everyone else. Are you telling me that black people in South Africa were able to do that.
Go on how they do and can become citizens. I don't know how many braincells I've lost talking to you. It's easier for a Palestinian to get citizenship in Israel than it is for a zainichi Korean. They can't even be Korean anymore to get citizenship. Dude what the fuck are you talking about here.
Hell no. Should Zainichi have an easier path to citizenship? I do think so, here in Germany we have an accelerated procedure for people who were born and went to school here, no matter the parentage. Is it any more involved to get Japanese citizenship as a Zainichi than as a German? Nope.
Not allowing dual citizenship isn't anything out of the ordinary either, btw.
People born in Germany are given citizenship. Zainichi Koreans are not in Japan. There is no accelerated procedure for zainichi Koreans who went to school. In fact japanese law even makes it harder for Korean schoolchildren.
Not in general, no.
If your argument was "Japan should adopt German-style laws and give citizenship to children of permanent residents" then I'd say yes, that's a good idea. Your argument, however, is "Japan has Apartheid, Zainichi can't use the same beaches as Japanese, are forced to live in segregated areas, have a different set of laws applied to them". Because that is what Apartheid means. You're trivialising the concept with your accusation.
My argument is nobody cares about apartheid or even potential apartheid countries Japan is not the only one. They act like there is no problem it's all normal. You don't see a single person here going hey yeah Japan should chill out everyone is just going "no it's not".
What are you talking about "in general, no."
It is how it works since the year 2000. If you are born there yes, you can get citizenship, given your parent live there for 8 years.
There are generations of zainichi who have not got citizenship.
I've shown they have different sets of laws that apply to them. They are prohibited from working various jobs.
I mentioned several things Japan should change. How is that "acting like there's no problem"?
What I'm saying it's not Apartheid. Because it isn't. Apartheid is a specific thing with a specific definition.
I mean "in general, no". If a pregnant couple travels to the US on a tourist visa and gives birth there, the child will be a US citizen. That's not the case in Germany or for that matter most of the rest of the world. Korea itself doesn't have Ius soli.
Living here doesn't suffice, you need permanent residency -- though if you're here for that long, that should generally be the case. And it's not "you can become a citizen" but "you are a citizen". If you don't grow up in Germany with that kind of Ius soli citizenship you'll have to choose with 21 whether you keep your foreign or German citizenship.
That kind of regime is btw what I proposed Japan introduce in my previous comment. You might want to start reading what I write.
And Japan should make the procedure easier for them. I have said that already. But that doesn't mean that they're treated any differently from any other non-citizen. They in fact do enjoy some rights not afforded to other permanent residents. So, yes, those "different laws" exist, but they're in the favour of Zainichis.
Go and have a look at actual Apartheid regimes. The degree of discrimination, the complete impossibility of leaving second-class citizen status, the lot of it. Noone is going to listen to your demands for better citizenship laws if you keep on pretending Zainichis can't shop in the same 7/11s that the rest of Japan shops in.
20% of the Israeli citizens are Palestine descent. 2 million Palestinian citizens of Israel.
Yeah, their laws I pointed out to you on how schools operate realllly favour zainichi Koreans. /s Incase you need it
What about the occupied territories? They're applying martial law there, and people have no prospect of citizenship. Then there's plenty of Palestinans living in Israel who don't have Israeli citizenship, or realistic prospect of citizens, e.g. in Jerusalem.
You have no idea how bad it is in Israel if you think it's in any way comparable to Japan.
I'm sorry are you saying that Japan should introduce Korean native-level lessons in their state school curriculum or what's your actual issue here. What would you change. I've yet to see any actual policy proposal from you: No solutions, just "Japan bad". Why would Zainichi who don't speak Korean want those types of schools.
Point me at a state and I'll find several things that they should change. Do you e.g. really want to get me started on Korea with their rampant gerontocracy and misogyny.
Crucially, though, and this should make you think, none of what I said Japan should change actually came from an argument you made.
Africans themselves have criticized Japan for apartheid.
Miss me with whatever antisemitic you are ignorantly and bigantly spreading.
Have you actually read the corresponding section in Chapter 1. Quote:
Have you any idea how many countries traded with South Africa at that time? Not exactly the same thing but here's a map of SA's diplomatic ties 1974. Plenty of African states, say Madagascar or the Congo, were happy to take South African money. What does anything of that have to do with the status of Zainichi a whole 50 years later?
Yes I read it all. It shows a pattern for Japan which openly embraces apartheid up to recent times. They support that crap. Just like the congo did. In fact the congo like Japan was also an apartheid during those relations.
Circling all the way back to the beginning: If they currently support that crap, why did Abe get slammed for proposing Apartheid?
It really does seem like you have made up your mind about the Japanese and are trying very hard to scrape together whimsy excuses for your bigotry.
...and seriously. Congo. As in back then still named Zaire. Did I miss something was Mobutu white or something. Are you just making shit up.
Dude there are japanese authors who embrace apartheid not just abe. South Africa is tired of Japanese shit.
I'm not making anything up. I haven't made a single thing up. You just don't give a single shit.
Quote:
Also, again, Abe:
Politics in Japan are strange, they're a proper democracy but also de facto a one-party state. Abe is dead, in more than one way.
And I mean -- this is what you have? Random people say stuff and you elevate it to state policy and social sentiment? Then, I guess, all Canadians want first nation people in boarding schools, all Germans want to ethnically cleanse the country of immigrant blood, all French want to re-colonise Algeria, all Koreans want state-mandated girlfriends, the list is fucking endless.
This is not random people, that was a top advisors of the country.
However you justify it and make jokes. Don't forget they also did kill 600k Koreans then pretty much enslave them for cheap labor. Waaaay more than Israel killed Hamas-Palestinians and civilian casualties.
Such a nice social sentiment /s
Are you reading what you're quoting? Why, if Japan is an Apartheid state, are courts siding with the Zainichi?
First off: History, or is Japan currently killing Koreans? Secondly, there were about 30m Korans in 1950 (North and South), but only 1.4m Palestinians. More than half of which were driven out of the country, by threat of settler violence, during the Nakhba.
Then, WTF is "Hamas-Palestinians" supposed to mean. I'm asking because you seem to be busy trivialising Israeli crimes while simultaneously exhibiting a clear pattern of group-focussed enmity, are you a Kahanite?
You were talking about Japan's social sentiment of the zainichi. So I pointed to the year long hate speech protests they conducted toward school children
It is completely false. They left because their Arab allies warned them to leave as they were going to invade Israel. Which they did.
What really happened is the first Jewish immigrants(just 100 people in 1890 known as Rishon LeZion) faced harsh conditions. Trouble farming their barren land, starving and trouble getting water to their settlement. All while starving and trying to live the Arab marauders would pillaged their settlement. There was no displacement or made up nakhba.
When the blood-curdling battle cry exhorting the masses to slaughter the Jews, “Itbach al-Yahud,” was first shouted on April 4, 1920, by Arab marauders rampaging through the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem’s Old City, it was accompanied by another mantra: “A-Dawla ma’ana” – the government is with us.That was the first brazen reverberation of the trust that Jews can be attacked with impunity, that no deterrence exists. It was since oft-chanted during the perpetration of other atrocities during the British Mandate era masterminded by Haj Amin el- Husseini, most notably the hideous Hebron massacre of 1929.
That sentiment has always been the same to " Itbach al-Yahud " even nearly 100 years later with Hamas.
Damn, you really are dumber than I thought. Looool.
Who is "they"? You might want to go back and read that article.
As to the rest... yeah even if you don't identify as Kahanite you're still spouting the same myths. You're the kind of guy at those kind of hate speech protests, desperately trying to find a place in the world that you can pretend is doing worse, so you can absolve yourself of your own bigotry. Pointing fingers, the favourite sport of the self-righteous. Remember: If you point your finger at someone else, three are pointing back at you. Try it, it's really true.
...? The Japanese anti Korea public? The Japanese public who let the protests continue for a whole year?
What myths? For someone who has carried on for 3 days it's weird you stop here.
There is literally nothing you have said to the treatment of the first settlers in 1890. They didn't displace anyone. It was just 100 people settling surrounded by what? 100K people? And that's the way they were treated? Left to starve and their village pillaged? Okay buddy. You say Rishon LeZion is a myth? That they had to go to France just to get a well made because those jew haters couldn't help them is a myth?
They are Uyoku dantai. Expanding that to the sole population is like calling all Israelis Kahanites, all white Americans KKK while calling all black Americans Nation of Islam, etc.
You were talking about 1920. That's Battle of Tel Hai and the Nebi Musa riots.
Oh, Jerusalem Post. I suppose Igrun is supposed to be "moderate", eh. I suppose the League of Nations mandate essentially telling Arabs "yep we're going to turn this into a Jewish majority country you don't get a say and we'll back it up with British guns" was moderate. It indeed then was unsarcastically moderate of the Brits to limit Jewish immigration as things became hot -- to which the likes of Igrun responded with terror attacks not just on Arabs, but also the Brits, because I mean how dare they care about public order. Everything is very moderate here. All were hippies who just wanted to live in peace, yes. Nothing to see here, the State of Israel had a virgin birth, wrapped in innocence.
You did just call me that. I don't know what it means.
1920 is 30 years after the first settlement. I believe the first settlement were hippies who wanted to live in peace. A lot of them had just moved there from a crazy situation in Russia. Why is it a crazy notion they want to live in peace? You don't explain why they were attacked and pillaged and I can't find that. Other than Arab marauders have always looted and pillaged for hundreds of years?
That is maybe part of the context to all those moderate actions Britain took.
You have to think as well. This was all some 3d game of Russian propaganda chess and controlled chaos.
You called me a kahanite well what about you? Left wing anti Semite?
This also can seem to describe you.
And yet you comment on Israel. LMFAO. I already had you half-pegged as an Israeli but that definitely disqualifies you, you know nothing about Israel.
Nothing, whatsoever. Where it becomes problematic is turning it into a colonial project. And no, early Zionists were not at all shy about calling what they were doing colonialism.
1920 is what the article you linked starts off with. It has pretty much nothing to do with Rischon LeZion.
Who got pillaged, when? And, yes, shit happens. The right course of action would've been to round up the perpetrators and put them before court. What the Idrun did, instead, was to bomb police stations and market places.
As to your insinuations of antisemitism: I'm German with Jewish roots. My grandfather barely survived the race laws. My aunt lives in Israel. I could grab my passport, fly to Israel, and get citizenship on arrival. My political stance regarding the whole thing can be best summed up as vaguely Labour-Zionist. You know, the kind of Israelis who get beaten up by Israeli police right now for protesting the genocide. The kind of people more concerned with pudding prices than killing Arabs.
There's two things to understand if you ever want to see an end to the bloodshed in that area:
Fascists on both sides are happy to make sure neither of the two ever happens. They mutually depend on each other.
That contradicts itself. How can you have me half pegged as an Israeli if I know nothing. I would have to know a decent amount of something.
Ohh no they setup a colony where persecuted Jews across Europe could escape to. You might wonder if the Jews moving to that area may have been a good thing? With the Jews also brought lots of Arab immigrants as well. And just for some numbers in 1900 there were around 600,000 Arabs in Israel and 90 thousand Jews.
Yes it does. It shows how things escalated over the 30 years after the settlement of Rishon LeZion and to what degree the Palestine Arabs escalated it.
Rishon LeZion. 1983 while they were starving with no water well trying to transport water on camelback to farm the land. How can they round up the perpetrators? I'm assuming the perpetrators hide behind some guarded fortress. You think a starving people is going to accomplish that?
Then back to the Jerusalem Post article the relevant part is here: you even pointed to it yourself.
Here are some announcements and warnings the Irgun gave to Palestine-Arabs. Why are you so apologetic for those murderers?
You can regurgitate right-wing Israeli propaganda myths quite well, that's not common outside of Israel. But from an Israeli the reaction to Kahanites being mentioned would have been either a) "Hell yeah sure let's kill all Arabs" or b) "No Kahanites are terrible you see my position is different because I want Arabs dead not because I hate them but because I'm afraid of them" or c) "fuck yeah they're our version of Hamas keeping the bullshit conflict going".
You mean whether colonialism is a good thing? No. No, it isn't.
...erm, what? If you meant 1893, well, first off it's a bad idea to start off an agricultural settlement without specialists in agriculture or irrigation, secondly, I was speaking generally. It would've first been British responsibility to round up instigators, which they couldn't really do because Zionists, instead of working with the British, bombed them instead, nowadays it's Israeli responsibility and we all know how Apartheid courts work: Throw a stone at a tank, not even scratching the paint, get sentenced to 15 years in prison. As a juvenile, mind you.
You're again talking about Rishon LeZion's startup trouble, I presume. How is the responsibility of random Johnny Arab to go out of their way to help some random Jews wanting to settle in the middle of nowhere without proper preparation. Why would they owe the settlers that.
Oh. Is that it? "We warned them we would be bombing the shit out of marketplaces and they didn't cease to do perfectly normal and peaceful things like visiting the market to buy and sell food so we had no choice but to terrorise them". That is murder apologia if I've ever seen it.
And yet the terror continued.