this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2023
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....with the James Web Telescope looking for sources of artificial light to identify potential intelligent life, and the news this week of Perseverance searching for microbial life on Mars it feels like we are getting closer to a major discovery. But what - if anything - would it mean for the religions on Earth if life is proven to exist out there?

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago

Same as every other times when science have disproven religions fairytales. They adapt. God also made those lifeforms

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So, fun fact, St Augustine, who is considered one of the Church Fathers, explicitly argued that if the 'Antipodes' (i.e., southern continents not connected to Europe, Asia or Africa) actually existed and had humans living there, that would prove the Gospel was untrue.

The reason for this is as follows: Christians of his era believed that the reason God had allowed the Romans to destroy the Second Temple and push the Jews into exile was to prepare the men of all nations (as understood at the time) for the coming of the Gospel. The idea was that the Jews had taken the Old Testament, and the prophecies of the Messiah therein, across the whole world. Augustine argues that if the Antipodes contained human beings who had never had any kind of contact with Jews, and therefore no contact with the OT, and no contact with Christians, and therefore no contact with the New Testament, either, that must mean the Gospels are false. Why? Because there's no conceivable reason that a just God would have deprived entire civilisations of the chance of redemption.

Of course, we now know that at the time Augustine was writing (4th-5th century AD), there were literally millions of people who had never had the slightest contact with the Jews or Christians and, furthermore, wouldn't do so for another millennium. So, per Augustine's argument, all those millions were condemned to Hell (the concept of Purgatory didn't exist at this point, but condemning them all to no chance of Heaven, just because they were unfortunate to be born a long way away from Jersualem, is clearly also unjust). Either God is incredibly unjust and unmerciful, which means the Gospels are untrue, OR the Good News wasn't actually spread to all men, which must also mean that they're not true.

The upshot of this is that one of the Church Fathers has, in retrospect, irrefutably argued that the Gospels are untrue. The amount of special pleading required to make out that, actually, the Maori or the Easter Islanders or [insert any other uncontacted peoples here] had an opportunity to accept Christ and somehow missed it entirely is far beyond any sane interpretation of the evidence.

Now, as you might have noticed, this hasn't stopped people from believing in the Gospels. I don't see why the discovery of life on another world would dislodge people from a belief that is transparently false when nothing else has.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I remember being taught that Jesus presented himself to the rest of the world after his resurrection and that beyond that ‘the rocks testify’ and that all man is without excuse.

It always bothered me, even before I began deconstructing, and was one of a few things that never set well with me.

I’m surprised that in all my study of Augustine I never saw this about him before.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, I always kind of respected the Mormons for at least trying to reconcile the existence of the Native Americans with the New Testament, beyond 'the rocks testify', but they also inadvertently showed how absurd the whole idea was by stretching every kind of evidence (biblical, linguistic, genetic, archaeological, etc.) so much to make it work! And of course even that didn't seem to account for the Polynesians and... well, everyone else.

I was always especially fond of the idea that Jesus revealed himself to the Aztecs and they somehow got so confused that they ended up worshipping a giant feathered snake instead.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Will proof of aliens change the brainwashed ultra religious? Not a chance. Hell, there are flatearthers and election deniers. I don't expect much from about 30% of our population.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Religions are unlikely to change substantially, I imagine they'll just find some way to explain the existence of aliens that fits their existing scriptures and world view.

There will be new religions that pop up as a result though, for sure.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Or say that science is lying again :p

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I think a lot of religious people will reason it this way- "Yes, there are aliens, but God chose us."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Death to all who reject Avis!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They would just claim god created them, too. They already did this with the universe when the whole thing about there being other stuff than the earth came up.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Exactly this. I know a guy who is a Christian but also believes in extraterrastial life saying that ayy lmaos are also Gods children. Every time he talks about it my head starts to spin.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I look forward to the aliens response being something along the lines of, "You're God's best boys and girls, yes you are, who are blessed little ape-beings? You are, yes all of you."

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Religion would change if religious people learn to look beyond 6 feet in front of them, but I guess that's less possible than proof of extraterrestrial life.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not all religious people are the Westborough Baptists, rabid creationists, prosperity gospel followers and massive hypocrites you know personally. Nor are the rest all militant fundamentalists who think terrorism is a good idea.

There are Jains, parts of the Salvation Army and many more that are perfectly reasonable and don't go against anything science has to say. Because at the end of the day, religions and science have very little overlap, as most religious beliefs can neither be proven nor disproven.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I agree and disagree as well.

Religion as it is refers to a way of life. Ideally what your way of life is should not change with what others do or not do.

But realistically, what we have seen is that religion lets people justify their own shortcomings just because they are part of a secret group and then force their "way of life" on others.

At the same time, holding onto a single "way of life" is intrinsically prone to mistakes, since we are never given complete knowledge about everything and will never have it. We need to change constantly to be better versions of ourselves.

If there are people who believe in something greater than them, and are prepared to change if they have the necessary proof, then I'm afraid I can't call them religious. I'd call them spiritual.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

With new worlds to deliver The Word to? Nah they wouldn't change, but they'd get serious about space travel.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Religion will just claim God made aliens, too.

Or that they're a test for the faithful. The way some do about dinosaur fossils.

I am also fully convinced that religious people could scientifically discover God and not believe it's actually God, so...

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I recall reading or hearing a rumour that the Vatican had a sealed scroll somewhere which is "to be opened in the event of positive extraterrestrial contact or proof".

Given secrets of that type don't often stay secret, it amounts to something like: "God made all life and the creator is in all living creatures" (handwaving).

In other words, the major religions already have their shit prepared.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Did they have to write it on a scroll :/

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

It isn't official until it is written on a scroll.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Facts have never stopped religion before. Why would it change now?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Just meeting another person who didn't automatically believe in your allegedly true God unless you told him about it should have put religion to rest forever.

Moreover, it's almost funny how thousands of cultures who had no contact between them at all have imagery of red devils with bad intentions yet nobody manages to have even a similar idea of what our supposed God is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Nothing. As long as people are scared of dying and other people are willing to profit from it, religion has a home

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If one of those aliens turns out to be Jesus, I might have to become a Christian.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

"Hey, JC. Where have you been? Lots of people here have been waiting for you to return."

"Oh you would not believe the traffic jam I was stuck in at the Horse head Nebula."

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Did other advances in human knowledge change them?

Most of them still think the universe was made in 6 days by a bearded toga dude in the sky and if you are gay you are going to magical underground fire place.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't know why the existence of aliens would rattle anyone's belief. Unless you can find a way to take away their threat of dying, they're going to believe in God.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or... They can be atheists.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

If they're already atheists than they're not religious and the post doesn't apply to them

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't think it will. People generally don't let facts get in the way of their beliefs. I mean look at some of these wild ideologies people believe to be truth. Some ideologies obviously can't be factual, but people believe them as such anyway. Then they use circular logic to justify them. They'll just circle their way out of the fact other intelligent life exists.

I think it's like the discovery of exoplanets, scientists were pretty sure they existed and already believed they existed in numbers, but when it was proven to be true, there wasn't a whole lot of philosophical change in culture because of it. Though it did narrow down one of the Drake variables for the existence of intelligent life.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Immaculate. Adapt. Respawn

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Lmao no. Just how "vaccines cause autism" never changed...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (13 children)

I think at least with Christianity it would be similar of changing the everything orbiting the Earth to Earth orbiting the Sun. They'd just declare that it is all God's creation and be done with it.

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