The purely defensive pact keeps on expanding.
this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
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So? They are not forcing anyone to join. Unlike certain other countries
So then how should russia feel and respond to this?
They should feel that they lost the cold war and their kleptocracy isn't conductive to expanding their already reduced sphere of influence, so they better make peace with the fact.
Since they dont feel this and feel directly threatened, why should NATO/America keep pushing it till war?
'cause they can. There's no good guys in international politics, you can check out an history book to confirm that.
So are you going to be the one sent overseas to die in a country that most people dont care anything about?
you clearly aren't grokking what I'm trying to communicate
You are claiming that they can do what they want, but that is backed by boots on the ground. Is that going to be you, or are you going to force my children to fight your wars?
I don't see how it's necessary to explain what is there for everyone to see: they got Ukrainians fighting for them (well, and themselves as well), then if that's not enough, the closest NATO countries will probably get into it.
And when the war goes global or nuclear and the US sends troops overseas for you dumb war, are you going or are you going to try to force my kids to die for you instead?
Change your government then, I'm already overseas, relative to you (unless you're posting from Moscow).
Nobody forced Russia to invade. You're saying NATO expansion forced their hand, why? Just because they'd lose their vassal and they didn't want to. Life in Ukraine SUCKED, that's why Euromaidan happened; was it pushed by US agencies as well? Maybe, but still it wouldn't have happened if not for the massive corruption there, much of which was upheld by Russia, see their support for Yanukovych.
NATO didnt force them to invade but it highly encouraged it. Russia said that Ukraine was the bightest of red lines and we saw what happpened to georgia when they were trying to join nato. There is no good reason to have Ukraine in NATO it brings much much more trouble than its worth, but NATO did it anyways knowing that it was considered an existential danger by russia.
Ukraine wasn't entering NATO, it was seeking close ties to the EU.
And anyway it's a sovereign country, it can do whatever the hell it wants, they're not slaves to Russia.
In early 2021, the Russian military began massing on Ukraine's borders. At the June 2021 Brussels summit, NATO leaders reiterated the statement made at the 2008 Bucharest summit that Ukraine would eventually join NATO.[10] In late 2021, there was another massive Russian military buildup around Ukraine. Russia's Foreign Ministry demanded that Ukraine be forbidden from ever joining NATO.[11] NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg replied that the decision is up to Ukraine and NATO members, adding "Russia has no right to establish a sphere of influence to try to control their neighbors".
From the 2008 Bucharest summit
Georgia and Ukraine had hoped to join the NATO Membership Action Plan,[3] but, while welcoming the two countries’ aspirations for membership and agreeing that "these countries will become members of NATO", the NATO members decided to review their request in December 2008.
This meeting was held in April and Russia invaded Georgia in August. So yes, Ukraine was wanting to join nato for years.
Why would NATO want to even consider having Ukraine join if it was the brightest of red lines, and very likely would end in war?
Proves nothing. Russia itself at one point pretended to want to join NATO, it's all politicking. And it's still pointless, a sovereign country is free to do what it wants, if it isn't, then it's not free and it has all the reason to fight for its freedom.
The US is practically never the good guy, but Russia is even worse, in this instance they're absolutely indefensible.
Oh yeah totally means nothing when they will literally go to war over the thing that means nothing. The issue is that nothing I can say will get across to you because you have believed the propaganda.
Well, you know, I actually went there, a few months before the war, and had the chance to talk to people, so maybe check your own propaganda bias.