If they would also investigate Apple for forcing Safari on iOS
this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
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No one would use Teams if it wasn't bundled together with other stuff.
I absolutely agree : our company used slack, Google docs, and self-hosted exchange.
Eventually, MS forced us to replace our self-hosted exchange for MS' cloud solution. This was basically a ramrod for shoveling O365 and having it replace Slack with Teams and Google Docs with O365.
The migration was painful... going from "I have the exact tools I need for the job" to "jebus, this is the best MS has? On Teams I can only see 4 people at the same time? What was MS thinking".
Not sure why yours doesn’t let you see more than 4 people. I’m in a call with 12 and I see them all. That being said, Google docs, etc. beats Word and Excel hands down in the area of collaboration and a few other minor points. I hate being stuck in one ecosystem that way.
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Serious question, I don't get the "forced" part. Could you clarify this for me?
Microsoft has been making hostile moves on licensing for on-prem/non subscription products for a while now. They want you to give up on local resources. Of course you could go to a competitor, but the only large competitor in the US is basically Google, and their offerings are not well tailored to business.
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Yeah. There must be tons of places that would choose Slack, or another alternative, over Teams if they weren’t getting Teams bundled into a piece they were already paying.
Let me disagree. My workplace is deep in ms "stuff" - dotnet development + other windows only stuff. Honestly, I got to use a lot of sw for online meetings due to c-19. Well, teams is as shitty as the others. Or good as the others. Depends on what you like to hear. I got used to it, and it does what it must almost always; very often what it should do. I've to say something more, but I don't want to look like a fanboy or similar.
I can understand Teams in Office, particularly O365 for organizations… what I don’t get is Teams being mandatory in Windows 11…
Seriously you can't have windows without having teams now?
I have a feeling when I finish rebuilding my gaming PC I'm not going to be a fan of using windows again...
A lot of us use Linux for gaming now. Supports almost all games. But for God's sake, pick a amd graphics card if you plan to do Linux gaming. Nvidia is buggy as hell.
Ugh. I've been wanting to switch for a while but that's a bummer to hear. I might just have to bite the bullet and deal with buggy drivers. Back when I got my monitors like 6 years ago there wasn't a ton of options for sub-5ms IPS displays with adaptive sync technology so I had to go with Acer Predators and G-Sync but now I'm kinda stuck with NVIDIA. I'm sure there's more options for monitors now but I'm not dropping that kind of money on monitors again.
Unless something has changed? Is GSync still proprietary? (Edit: looks like G-Sync does work on AMD cards now but only for newer monitors, dang.)
Ironically, I remember not long ago it was AMD that used to have the crap Linux drivers.
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My steam deck has been a god send! I am definitely looking forward to using Linux or trying it when I get to rebuilding my PC.
My biggest hope is that by the time I rebuild anti cheat for games like destiny 2 will work...
I have been using windows exclusively for 20 years now but just made the switch to Linux (EndeavourOS - an arch distro) 1 week ago and I couldn't be happier!
99% of all applications that I use work just as well (including games) and for the very very few that won't work (like Valorant) I am using a dual boot setup. The reason that I made the switch was that I got anxious with W10 EOL approaching since I would rather stop using windows altogether than using W11.
Seriously you can’t have windows without having teams now?
you can just uninstall it
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How is pairing two of their own products together even a trust/monopoly issue?
Other chat companies would have great difficulty competing when Teams is bundled with Office 365.
It's not bundled is it? Functionality comes with the licence. For example our teams usage is dependant on our Office 365 E5 licencing, which costs money. Word comes bundled with office yet no complaints. Google spreadsheet comes bundled with google workspace.
It's also got native integrations with SharePoint, Azure, windows and anything Microsoft. And even then the functionality and user experience is alot better than the competitors. I hate WebEx with a passion.
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In General, using a part of your business that's on top to boost another part of your business that is not is typically seen as anti-competitive. Office is clearly the market leader, but Teams isn't.
IMO, the EU needs to do with Edge and Office. There is now a toggle in Outlook that ignores your default browser and opens everything in Edge. It's ridiculous.
I'm not an expert on EU antitrust but these things seem like they naturally go together. After all, Outlook comes with Office, right? Is that not a communication and collaboration tool?
Well.. that depends on who you ask. Some say that Teams being a part of the bundle is anti competitive (which it is). Outlook used to be only a mail client, so it made sense when it was part of the Office package, as one thing that an Office user needs, is an email client. Exchange servers had to be hosted by the company. However nowadays, you get the client and the infra for a subscription based model so it was kind of grandfathered in, I guess. If I as a company say I'm not interested in Teams and want to not pay for it as I do not plan to use it, msft will tell me it's not possible. Therefore, businesses like Slack can never succeed because I as a company will never look at alternatives if I already get a messaging app built into my Office suite.
I dunno, I'm just mumbo jumbing really and not a lawyer (or an EU citizen, for that matter). I just hate Teams.
I think this is a great explanation. Teams really is anti competitive and the way you laid it out made that easier for me to understand.
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I remember a similar case regarding Windows shipping with IE. Whatever happened with that?
They added a browser choice window to Windows 7 where you could select and download a web browser to install. It isn't present in Windows 10 and on, possibly wasn't in 8 either.
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Now do google and DRM
I'm no big fan of MS. And even if I were, using Teams would make that praise fall in the shitter
But I'm tired of these groups arguing that something should be less complete as a good thing
Why doesn't Yamaha sue Honda for including their own radio in the car? And surely customers would be irritated that they had to go and get another fucking radio
If I buy "Office Suite" I want it to have all the products included. If I think teams sucks I can get something else
If they make it difficult for that, like they did with IE, that's a different story. But merely including it? Come on
They tried that shit with antivirus. I'm GLAD MS includes defender. If I had to get all that shit separately, I'd be irritated. And if I don't like defender, I'm free to get something else
Because it’s more important for businesses to be able to compete for your eyeballs than it is for you to get a usable product out of the box.
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