this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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new to this linux stuff sorry

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

There’s nothing inherently superior, just what people like more. If you want to use Mint that’s totally fine and valid.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Moved over from Mint to Arch for gaming, which has some additional benefits:

  • more up-to-date kernel and more up-to-date Mesa, which brings very noticeable improvements in frame rates - in Elden Ring for example, 45 fps outside in Mint to 60 fps outside on Arch

  • my desktop soundcard isn't recognised properly by PulseAudio but is by PipeWire. It's hard to be sure that PulseAudio is completely gone when you uninstall it then reinstall something else. Arch, I just installed what I wanted in the first place

  • some utility programmes, like CoreCtrl for graphics card fan and power tweaking, and emulators like RPCS3, are the Arch repositories but not the Mint ones. Much easier to keep them up-to-date

  • for a gaming machine, no more 'mystery services' that I don't know what they are. I quite like having everything quite stripped back for a gaming machine. On Arch, I know what everything does because I installed it. That's not the case on Mint.

Obviously, I installed the Cinnamon desktop as my GUI choice - there's certain things about Mint that are tremendous and worth sticking to.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Package base is always up to date since it's rolling. The AUR is absolutely fantastic and gives me any obscure application I could ever need. You ever tried installing the marathon trilogy with alephone on fedora? The AUR makes it a single button install. I'm currently running endeavour OS plasma, such a smooth experience.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, Arch is not inherently better, it depends on your needs. If you want up-to-date packages and don't mind the do it yourself approach you'll love Arch. I've used Arch for a few years and learned a lot from it. I love the minimalism. Now I switched to a minimal install of Sway on Debian because I just want a tried and tested stable system. I am at a point of my life where I want a really boring install. Instead of tinkering with the system I use it as a base to learn more on the server side, and learn more coding, etc

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ironically my day to day experience was harder with Debian than Arch, it was a pain trying to find up-to-date packages for pretty much everything I needed

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

But why is up-to-date always good though?I get it if you actually need the new version but that's rare though. There's a reason that critical infrastructure relies on more stable, older and tested packages. In the industry and where the money actually is, older is generally seen as better and more mature. For example the whole drama of RedHat with Centos Stream happened because people don't want to use upstream Centos Stream because it's the testing ground for RHEL. I am at a stage where I prefer older packages. The new and shiny doesn't mean it's better.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just try using any modern framework/language/library/tool/whatever with the packages that exist by default in the Debian repository, it's impossible and a pain in the ass

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

What framework do you actually use ? Most programmers use Ubuntu or Debian and I don't see how you need something so up to date and on the edge? Apart from some specific cases, most people do not need newer packages.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

For me, it's:

  • All software is shipped with as few changes as possible from upstream, so I'm getting the software as intended. If there's an issue, it's likely due to the software, not my distribution's unicorn configuration.
  • Pacman. This includes PKGBUILDs, syntax, and speed.
  • Good support. For all that this distribution isn't "the standard", you find install instructions in places you wouldn't expect, and more difficult things tend to work on Arch more easily than on other distributions.
  • Easy to set new things up. Because Arch doesn't ship with much configuration, there's no existing configuration you need to investigate in order to wrangle it to work with something new. This is also a downside, but we'll get to that...
  • Inertia. I installed it a few years ago, and I kind of want to move to openSUSE or Fedora, but I'm too comfortable here.

Downsides:

  • You need to configure everything. That includes the security stuff like AppArmor and SELinux you don't understand.
  • Occasional breakages. Arch doesn't break that often, but it's annoying when it does. Usually visiting bbs.archlinux.org is enough to set you on the right path.
  • Some software is packaged more slowly than other rolling distributions. Notably, GNOME is usually packaged a few months after openSUSE and Fedora ship it.
  • Constant updates! And HUGE updates, at that! Not great for computers you don't use often. If you do, make sure to pacman -Sy archlinux-keyring before you install new updates.
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Arch and Gentoo have IMO the best documentation ever and you learn a lot when you try using either of those distributions as you have to do everything from scratch starting from a minimal system. Since you're saying you're new to Linux though, I'd say you should start with something more user-friendly like Mint or Ubuntu (or even Manjaro if you want a rolling release distro) and stay away from Arch and Gentoo in the beginning.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Instead of Manjaro, try EndeavourOS, easy Arch install with GUI.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I will say that while some things in the Arch wiki are for arch only, a whole lot of it applicable to any distro. Or at least to Mint, which I've been on for like a decade but have used AW (it's a common DuckDuckGo bang I use, !aw) for many a trouble shooting and configuring

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Arch teaches you about the inner workings of Linux. Mostly because it breaks all the time and you have to fix it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Different strokes for different folks mostly.

Arch is a rolling release, meaning everytime something changes in a package or dependency, there's an update.

Mint is a stable release, and gets major updates every few months, with much more frequent security updates, but yeah, it's not an everyday thing like with Arch

While I don't like saying "this is better than that", since Arch is a rolling release, it's always up to date, and so you're not going to end up in a situation like "my built-in laptop sound card isn't getting picked up" (i mean, you might, but it's rare. After all, Arch can break sometimes times, just like everything, really) like you sometimes can with Mint and other stable distros. Also, Arch--well, vanilla Arch and something like Endeavour--comes with just the basics and everything else, you gotta add. I personally like this because I like knowing exactly what I'm installing and having only what I'm going to use...and also not deal with messing with PPA's. This isn't a point against non-Arch distros or anything, it's all just personal preference--but really, everything from "Should I do Arch with Cinnamon or something like Mint or Fedora's Cinnamon Spin?" is all up to personal preference

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That's essentially an extremely subjective question. Arch is well-liked but not for everyone.

When you boot up the ArchLinux ISO to install it, what you get on the screen is:

root@archiso ~ #

That's it. It doesn't ask you what language you want to speak or which keyboard layout you want to use. You get a zsh shell, and that's it. Go figure out what you want to install, how you want to install it, where you want to install it to. That's how basically all of Arch works: if you install something, it comes barebones with sometimes the default starting configuration shipped by whoever made the software and nothing else.

To me, that's what makes Arch so good compared to something like Linux Mint: I'm an advanced user, I don't want training wheels, and I want to build my system entirely from scratch, with only what I want on it installed and running. And it comes with excellent documentation, is a rolling release (meaning, you get the latest version of everything fairly quickly). Since Arch pretty much only ships packages for you to install, it's not nearly as important to make sure that they work and there isn't any incompatibility with other packages. Oh the newer version of X doesn't work with Y anymore? Too bad, go figure out how to downgrade it or figure out a workaround.

Is this useful to you, a beginner? It depends. If you want to go into the deep ends and learn everything about how a Linux system is built and works, sure, it's going to be great for that. Lots of people do that and love it! If you're coming from Windows, all you're used to is clicking next next finish, and you like things to just work out of the box, eehh, probably not great for you.


Distributions like Linux Mint does a lot of the work for you: first of all, it has a graphical installer. It boots up and asks you about your language, your keyboard, where you want to install it. And it installs a system that's ready to be used out of the box. When you install Linux Mint, you get a desktop, a web browser, you get drivers configured for you. It detects what's the best graphics drivers and prompts you to install them automatically.

Most distributions, especially Debian/Ubuntu derived ones, are all about providing a curated experience. It comes with a whole bunch of stuff installed and configured to reasonable defaults. Need to print something? Yeah it comes with printer support by default, just plug in your printer and it'll configure it for you. Some distributions even comes with Steam and Discord and everything needed to game ready to go right out of the box. Log in and play.

To provide such a reliable and out of the box experience, these distributions typically work with a release cycle, or delay updates to have time to properly test them out and make sure they work correctly before they ship it out to users. This means you may be a few versions behind on your desktop environment, but you also get the assurance you won't update and your desktop doesn't work anymore.


I personally picked Arch a long time ago because I'm fundamentally a tinkerer, I want the newest version of everything even if it means breaking things temporarily, and I do kind of whacky things overall. One day my laptop is there for working and browsing the web, another day it's an iPXE server to install 20 other computers, another day it's a temporary router/WiFi access point, another day it's a media center/TV box, another day it's an Android tablet. Arch gives me the freedom to make my computer do whatever I need my computer to do at the moment, and because it doesn't make any assumptions about what I want to do with my computer, I can easily make it do all of those things on a whim. On Linux Mint, I'd be fighting an uphill battle to tear down everything the developers spent so much time building for me and my convenience.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's also a meme because people who are on Arch like to tell you about it because it makes them seem better since it's not easy mode.

Kinda like vegans or Android users.

I'm on Manjaro an arch based distro BTW.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The vegan comparison's a bit of a tangent but most vegans I know keep their heads down because they only need to mention it once for everyone to start complaining that they did. It's not really fair to characterize them as wanting to live life on hard mode and brag about it. They genuinely want to protect and respect animals, they find it's not so hard after all, and mostly they do it discreetly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

... but most Arch users I know keep their heads down because they only need to mention it once for everyone to start complaining that they did. It’s not really fair to characterize them as wanting to use Linux on hard mode and brag about it. They genuinely want to fully customize thier system, they find it’s not so hard after all, and mostly they do it discreetly.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As someone who has used both as my primary operating system the main reason I ended up on Arch is the Arch User Repository (AUR).

The AUR allows you to run installation scripts for apps that aren’t supported by the official repositories and pretty much everything you could ever want is there.

The other big thing I liked is the Arch Wiki documents everything really well, and I preferred the kinds of answers I found there and on the Arch forums to the Ubuntu/Mint forums.

At the time, operating system overhead was extremely important to me and a window manager like i3 or awesome was less resource intensive than Mint’s Cinnamon Desktop Environment (DE).

All of that being said though, because Arch doesn’t ship with a DE getting started will require a configuring a lot of things using old school text based configuration files. The Mint installed on the other hand leaves you with a very capable and functional system as soon as you finish installing it.

If you want something that works right out of the box, I would recommend Mint. If you want a project give Arch a shot!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yep you nailed it. The AUR with yay allows you to turn GitHub into your system’s package manager basically. Definitely not recommended for most users, but if you’re cautious and know what you’re doing, it’s an amazing addition to your toolkit.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly the reason I would advise any newbie to stay away from AUR or Arch alltogether.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I actually find it to be quite a bit easier to use than Debian. I do think the Arch spookiness is way overblown. It shouldn’t be your first Linux distro, but I think it’s fine once you get bored with the Linux Mints and Ubuntus of the world.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have any arguments on why you think Arch is easier to use than Debian? Common sense tells me there is none, despite the obvious "well any package is available in AUR so I can install it easypeezy" yolo.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It’s not just the AUR, but that’s part of it. Every time I use Debian, I’m shocked by how difficult it is to install any proprietary software. I tried to make it easy on myself by installing Flatpak, but even that didn’t seem to work on my system for some reason. I’m sure it was a fixable problem, but I just found myself fighting it more than I liked. The Arch wiki is also incredible and has been a great help when I’ve encountered similar issues over there.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For everyone saying the wiki, you don't have to be an Arch user to love the wiki. I'm on Solus but use the Arch wiki frequently.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm a Debian & Gentoo user and I refer to it from time to time.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What specific parts of Arch Wiki do you find useful as a Debian user?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

One that stood out for me is the systemd article on Arch wiki is amazing! From basic operation to creating units, it has everything. It has helped me with my work more times than I care to admit (we use Debian & Ubuntu).

Other than that, mostly, that'd be more as a Gentoo user for me, since it requires more involved setup.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

I think my issue with Mint is the small team maintaining the cinnamon fork that clearly can't keep up with the desktop.

Otherwise mint is functionally Ubuntu. I preferred Debian for my stable stuff. I like arch currently because PKGBUILD was acomparatively easy package format to learn and modify. Rolling is nice but I've used Debian extensively as well.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

If you like extra config work you'll love Arch relative to Mint.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Arch and Mint target a different user base. Mint is more appropriate for the beginning Linux user who wants to wade slowly into using Linux. It's for somebody that is coming from an entire GUI experience like Windows. This person may have no understanding of partitions, filesystems, bootloaders, etc. Arch is going to be more appropriate for either an intermediate to advanced user of Linux that wants more control over their installation or a Windows user that understands the more complex topics around the way a computer operates.

The above said, it is very possible to do advanced things with Mint as well and I have in the past. I just want to have a leaner system that does not make assumptions about what I want or need. I want fairly strict control of what goes into my installation but not strict enough that I would need to do something like Linux From Scratch. Both Mint and Arch are excellent distributions! In fact, I would go as far to say as I like all open source operating systems and software by the nature that they're open sourced. They can be customized, expanded, etc. I would also advise people to mix some FreeBSD and OpenBSD in their homelabs if possible because the more you can learn, the better. OpenBSD is my firewall and advanced router. FreeBSD powers my blog. Arch powers my desktop and Mastodon and Lemmy instances.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Mint is more appropriate for the beginning Linux user who wants to wade slowly into using Linux. It’s for somebody that is coming from an entire GUI experience like Windows.

Mint is also great for the experienced Debian sysadmin who just cannot be bothered to care about customizing every damn thing up front, but wants a responsibly managed package system under the hood.

Same can be said for Pop! which is what I'm using now. You don't have to be a noob to want things to just work out of the box.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yes. I've been an IT professional for the last 20 years. I started out experimenting with all kinds of distros, but as the need increased just to get stuff done, I went to Mint and stayed there. The more I had to do, the more I became a Linux user who just wanted the thing to work so I could get on with it. Mint was great for that. Recently I've started using OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, which strikes me as a kind of middle ground between an Arch-like distro and a Mint-like distro. It gives me that nice sense that it's only doing what I ask it to, without the need to build everything from the bottom up, and it's much more up to date than Mint.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Hey, I can get behind anyone that goes all in on open source! Doesn't matter what distro they're using. Doesn't matter if it's one of the BSDs. You're all good in my book. 😁