Dismissing good advice because the person who gave it to you has flaws is the epitome of logical behavior!
this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
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Let's assume I didn't know about vaccines and I went to ask for advice to someone. How would I know if what they told me was good advice?
I would ask myself, are they an authority on the subject? Where do they draw the advice from? Who says they are an authority? What did they have to do to earn that authority? Do other authorities say the same?
Are mormons authorities on logic? Why trust advice about logic from someone that doesn't follow logic?
A liar can say that lying is bad. A killer can say that killing is bad. It just so happens that the advice is good, in spite of who said it.
You ended up agreeing with me in that last sentence.
Disregarding advice you know is good already because you don't respect the source is an emotional, not logical, choice.
Yes, it's emotional to disregard advice you know is good. However it is a logical reaction to have.
It is logical for humans not to trust or accept advice from a hypocrite, even if that advice may be good. It's not about the advice itself, but about who gives it. That was my point.
Unfortunately humans have emotions, and those emotions factor into our so called "logical decisions". To ignore our emotions is to pretend we are machines, and machines wouldn't be in these situations, as a machine wouldn't give advice it doesn't follow itself.
Now, if we were machines, sure, if the advice is good, it's good, doesn't matter who gives it.
Furthermore, if I already know the advice is good, did I receive advice?
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I think it’s pretty logical to outwardly seem like a Mormon in Utah, so I guess it depends.
Hot take: Mormon doctrine is no stranger or harder to believe than any other flavor of Christianity. They're just a minority so they stand out more.
Mormon church practices however are straight up low level cult behavior.
I mean, I can't think of another sect of christianity that requires special underwear. Outerwear, sure, but underwear? Creepy.
Is that really creepier than other Christian practices, or is mainstream Christianity just so normalized that you don't question it?
It is a little different when your origin story is very obviously a mediocre conman having his shitty cons described by multiple eye witness accounts and having your myths be 2000 years old with no first hand accounts.
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Most christians pretend to be cannibals as a weekly rite.
The person they are cannibalizing is the same one they worship.
The extra layer of clothes is the most boring thing about mormons.
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It's harder to believe because it's easily disproven. Turns out Joseph's "translation" of ancient Egyptian wasn't inspired.
The Bible is just as easy to disprove my dude. Neither book is real, our society just pretends one is more reasonable.
Not just as easy. There's a lot of room for someone to say "this was actually just metaphor" or even "these are just stories to convey values".
Take the tower of Babel, for example, we know it never happened. However, a more progressive Christian or Jewish tradition can use the story to talk about how sometimes cultural differences are simply surface level, we are all ultimately the same people. Mormons aren't so lucky because the book of Mormon was pitched as a literal history and part of the book has literal refugees from the tower of Babel.
Unlike the Bible, we have the author of the religion who very well documented how literal everything is. We don't even know who authored nearly any book in the Bible or their motivations.
I'm not arguing for a god, I'm an atheist exmo. However, there's a pretty big difference between a bunch of old stories compiled together into a book and a book of fiction that the author went out of his way to claim was "the most correct book ever written".
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No but any religion is similarly "illogical", Mormons are the same as other Christians with extra "m"
Wow Reddit really did migrate here
Yes, how dare I punch down on the poor Mormon Church!
Ah yes, makes 100 bln dollar profit illegally and tax free, pay 5m fee as punishment. What a fucking joke.
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And not just any reddit, but 2010 reddit – in both the best and the worst ways.
It's like fat people telling you to eat healthy. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean it's bad advice
Reminds me of the rabbi whose congregation complained about his many vices, saying that he's supposed to be better, he's supposed to show them the way. So he brought them to the edge of the town and showed them a direction sign.
"Does it show you the way? It does. And do you want it to go anywhere?"
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Actually, mormons think they are very logical. I've seen many instances of people talking about how Brandon Sanderson being Mormon is why he's so thorough at world building.
Does he write his world building on golden plates?
Perhaps he dictates his stories using a seer stone while staring into a hat?
The flaw of the meme isn't that it's picking on religion, the flaw of it is that it assumes illogical views negate logical views. Believing that angels hid golden plates in New England doesn't negate good looks at a P&L in the same way that a Christian working at NASA that believes a dude rose from the dead doesn't negate good math to get a satellite into space. In the same way that me being agnostic doesn't mean I'm always logical and rational in every situation.
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dum dum dum dum dum
As someone who has worked with and for Mormons, it's a special kind of hell. Usually some flavor of narcissist stunted at a middle-school level of inward development.
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A slightly different hot take:
Professing to be a mormon is a logical decision if your culture is mormon.
Disinterest in pursuing a more empirical world view is not illogical if one would have to damage their relationship with those closest to them in its pursuit.
(Sorry about the pretentiousness of that (and this) sentence, I can't find a more vernacular way of expressing these ideas succinctly).
What you said (and such defenses of religion) makes me think: If I see someone ready to jump off a bridge, and I can stop them against their will, should I? I mean, inside their brain they are ending their suffering. They don't see value in life. But I do. Whose worldview is more important?
What if it was drugs, should I stop them? What if it was drinking every weekend? What if it was refusing to go outside without a mask in the middle of a pandemic?
What if it was following the cult of their parents, which encourages abuse & discrimination of women, opression of minorities, supression & regression of scientific advances and further indoctrination of future generations? If I have the power to get someone out of their cult against their will, should I?
Or what if it was continuing to feed a system that brainwashes people into thinking that monetary gain is what's important in life, that the system is infallible, and no alternatives exist?
Should we act against what we perceive as wrong, even if it's against the will of other persons? Where do we draw the line? Who decides what is right and what is wrong?
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Wait till you hear about Jehova's witnesses.
Not that this is a competition, but both score about equally high on the BITE model for identifying cults.
Blood transfusions and birthday celebrations are the work of the devil?
Say it isn’t so!
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Boss says "make logical decisions". Insights like this are why they pay him the big bucks. Not just anybody can come up with such insights. (/s)
Well, do they believe the crazy bullshit, or are they just an opportunist looking to make connections? Church is lucrative.
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I mean it's damn close but if you continue to zoom out you'll see another point even further away. That my dear is the GOP.
My favorite saying is:
Not my monkey, not my circus
Edit: flipped my saying around by accident. I guess I do need more sleep
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