this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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The AI boom is screwing over Gen Z | ChatGPT is commandeering the mundane tasks that young employees have relied on to advance their careers.::ChatGPT is commandeering the tasks that young employees rely on to advance their careers. That's going to crush Gen Z's career path.

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[–] [email protected] 121 points 1 year ago (10 children)

The fucked up part isn't that AI work is replacing human work, it's that we're at a place as a society where this is a problem.

More automation and less humans working should be a good thing, not something to fear.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 year ago (4 children)

But that would require some mechanism for redistributing wealth and taking care if those who choose not to work, and everyone knows that’s communism.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So much this. The way headlines like this frame the situation is so ass-backwards it makes my brain hurt. In any sane world, we'd be celebrating the automation of mundane tasks as freeing up time and resources to improve our health, happiness, and quality of life instead of wringing our hands about lost livelihoods.

The correct framing is that the money and profits generated by those mundane tasks are still realized, it's just that they are no longer going to workers, but funneled straight to the top. People need to get mad as hell not at the tech, but at those who are leveraging that tech to specifically to deny them opportunity rather than improving their life.

I need a beer. 😐

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think you misspelled "taxes," but its possible your spelling will turn out to be more accurate.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There are both dystopian (a tiny Elite owns the automatons and gets all gains from their work and a massive unemployed Underclass barelly surviving) and utopian (the machines do almost everything for everybody) outcomes for automation and we're firmly in the path for Dystopia.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly. This has nothing to do with AI and everything to do with UBI.

But, the rich and plebes alike will push AI as the Boogeyman as a distraction from the real enemy.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's this bizarre right-wing idea that if everyone can afford basic necessities, they won't do anything. To which I say, so what? If you want to live in shitty government housing and survive off of food assistance but not do anything all day, fine. Who cares? Plenty of other people want a higher standard of living than that and will have a job to do so. We just won't have people starving in the street and dying of easily fixable health problems.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

We also have to be careful of how people define this sort of thing, and how the wide range of our current wealth inequality affects how something like UBI would be implemented.

In the rich's eyes, UBI is already a thing and it's called "welfare". It's not enough that people on welfare can barely survive on the poverty-level pittance that the government provides, but both the rich and slightly-more-well-off have to put down these people as "mooching off the system" and "stealing from the government", pushing for even more Draconian laws that punish their situation even further. It is a caste of people who are portrayed as even lower scum than "the poors", right down to segregating where they live to "Section 8" housing as a form of control.

UBI is not about re-creating welfare. It's about providing a comfortable safety net while reducing the obscene wealth gap, as technology drives unemployment even higher. Without careful vigilance, the rich and powerful will use this as another wedge issue to create another class of people to hate (their favorite pastime), and push for driving the program down just as hard as they do for welfare.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It's not even a new thing either.

It used to be that every single piece of fabric was handmade, every book handwritten.

Humans have been losing out on labor since they realized Og was faster at bashing rocks together than anyone else.

It's just a question of if we redistribute the workload. Like turning "full time" down to 6 days a week and eventually 5, or working hours from 12+ to 8hrs. Which inflates the amount of jobs to match availability.

Every single time the wealthy say we can't. But eventually it happens, the longer it takes, the less likely it's peaceful.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This was exactly the problem that Charles Murray pointed out in the bell curve. We're rapidly increasing the complexity of the available jobs (and the successful people can output 1000-1,000,000 times more than simple labor in the world of computers). It's the same concept as the industrial revolution, but to a greater degree.

The problem is that we're taking away the vast majority of the simple jobs. Even working at a fast food place isn't simple.

That alienates a good chunk of the population from being able to perform useful work.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

That book is shit and should not be cited in any serious discussion. Here's a good video explaining why the book is full of racist shit: https://youtu.be/UBc7qBS1Ujo

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

But how will the rich people afford more submarines to commit suicide in?

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lol it's not ChatGPT screwing over Gen Z. It's the rich business owners who care more about profits than people.

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It was already happenning in things like Software Developmnt with outsourcing: all the entry level stuff was sent away to be done by people who cost a fraction of what even a Junior Dev would cost in the West, and that's exactly the stuff that one starts one's career with.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As someone who lives in the east where these jobs are outsourced to, it's not like junior devs here get to work on them either. Most outsourced stuff is assigned to people higher up. The talented juniors are left sitting on the bench as retainer manpower, others are in an endless string of unpaid internships.

The job situation is more similar then you think all over the world

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Bullshit. Learn how to train new hires to do useful work instead of mundane bloat.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

100% if an AI can do the job just as well (or better) then there's no reason we should be making a person do it.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

Part of the problem with AI is that it requires significant skill to understand where AI goes wrong.

As a basic example, get a language model like ChatGPT to edit writing. It can go very wrong, removing the wrong words, changing the tone, and making mistakes that an unlearned person does not understand. I’ve had foreign students use AI to write letters or responses and often the tone is all off. That’s one thing but the student doesn’t understand that they’ve written a weird letter. Same goes with grammar checking.

This sets up a dangerous scenario where, to diagnose the results, you need to already have a deep understanding. This is in contrast to non-AI language checkers that are simpler to understand.

Moreover as you can imagine the danger is that the people who are making decisions about hiring and restructuring may not understand this issue.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They don't want to train new hires to begin with. A lot of work that new hires relied on to get a foothold on a job is bloat and chores that nobody wants to do. Because they aren't trusted to take on more responsibility than that yet.

Arguably whole industries exist around work that isn't strictly necessary. Does anyone feel like telemarketing is work that is truly necessary for society? But it provides employment to a lot of people. There's much that will need to change for us to dismiss these roles entirely, but people need to eat every day.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The problem is the concept of work hasn't shifted to keep up with the technological reality that has been created. Jobs should slowly be phased out. We need a new economical concept to take hold that doesn't rely solely on class and fear to make it trundle along. Jobs should be what you do to grow your own fruit and veggies for fun, while the administration and maintenance of basically everything should be left to technology. Wealth and wealth accumulation should no longer exist or be seen as anything other than childish and irrelevant.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

"Haha best I can do is lower wages and more homelessness"

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Bro service industry jobs and similar are booming. Train under a plumber, electrician or gassist and you will be set for years

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Go where the future is...HVAC. Soon everyone is going to need AC just to survive.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Which will accelerate the destruction of the planet. Yay!

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Whether you have ac or not, the planet is set on course to be destroyed unless big oil countries suddenly find their kindness to all mankind and stop drilling oil. Which is impossible.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Where I'm from even those jobs pay shitty salaries that haven't kept up with the cost of living. I know electricians who can barely afford rent.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

We need to start instituting universal basic income to compensate for the job losses. It’s inevitable. We have to protect the person, not the jobs.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's not just Gen Z, everyone's jobs are at risk as AI improves and automates away human labor. People who think that with exponential rate of progress of AI there will continue to be an abundance of good jobs are completely delusional. Companies hire people out of necessity, not some goodness of the heart. If machines can do everything humans can do and better, then companies will hire less people and outsource to machines. Sure there will be people working on the bleeding edge of what AI isn't yet capable of, but that's a bar that's only going to get higher and higher as the performance advantage gap of humans over machines reduces.

Of course none of this would be an issue if we had an economic system that aligned technological progress with improved quality of life and human freedom, but instead we cling on to antiquated systems of the past that just disproportionately accrue wealth to a dwindling minority while leaving the rest of civilization at their mercy. Anyone with any brain or sense of integrity realizes how absurd this is, and it's been obvious we need a Universal Basic Income for a long time. The hope I have is that Andrew Yang explained it eloquently 4 years ago and it resonated way stronger than I expected with the American population, so I think in a few years when AI is starting to automate any job where one doesn't need a 160 IQ, people will see the writing on the wall and there will finally be the political capital to implement a UBI.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

And the funny part is that ChatGPT isn't good enough at anything to be trusted with doing it alone. You still need an expert on the subject matter to proofread anything that will be seen by the public or used to make a business decision.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

You can say the same for entry level employees though. I'm not trusting anyone new to post without review.

Granted I rather the company pay someone so they can be taught and eventually become autonomous over time.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There's something that a person close to me said about certain tech/features that stuck with me and seems to click here, it was: "A lot of it just stops you from using your brain."

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Is this not similar to the introduction of calculators in schools? We don't need to use our brains anymore to do the "mechanical calculation". Instead we can offload this task to the machine and use our brain for other tasks.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Not exactly. When it comes to calculations that could be super unreasonable and impractical to do by hand (think multiple exponents on a number, or cosine, sine, and tangent as simple examples), they help reduce that tedium in the overall process of what you’re trying to do. There comes a point where it’d be absurd to do certain kinds of math by hand primarily. I’m not largely math-oriented, but even with calculators one could understand the reasoning behind certain concepts despite using a calculator to work through them. People who take calculus can understand it but still use a calculator.

To have a calculator to do your times tables instead of knowing them, or any basic stuff in the four units would be detrimental I feel, because you’d benefit in knowing those up front, and how to process them mentally.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

In an ideal world, people would start receiving better and more fulfilling opportunities when their mundane tasks are automated away. But that's way too optimistic and the world is way to cynical. What actually happens is they get shitcanned while the capitalists hoard the profits.

We need a better system. One that, instead of relentlessly churning for the impossibility of infinite growth and funneling wealth upwards, prioritizes personal financial stability and enforces economic equallibrium.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

governments need to take seriously what we are looking at in the next 40 years. There IS going to be less work, and less need for it. We can no longer play a game of work = virtue and that you must work to live.

If we fail to address this we will be complicit in a slow genocide

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I consider myself, at best, a medior profile in my industry (IT). ChatGPT with GPT-4 (at least the initial version of it) was completely capable of doing EVERYTHING I need to do daily for my job. And probably faster and with much fewer mistakes.

That simply tells me it's a guarantee my job's gone in a matter of time. Whether that's one year or five remains to be seen, but it's inevitable.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Otoh one of my friends is an IT teacher and there are regular issues with students blindly following dumb chatGPT advice.

Recently, one had removed their fstab directory 🤣

ChatGPT is very good at giving advice that sounds good but it still has absolutely no understanding about what it says. The quintessential child of a politician and a manager...

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (11 children)
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)

So what would that mean for the company itself long-term? If they're not training up their employees, and most of the entry level is replaced by text generator work, there would be a hole as executives and managers move out of the company.

It seems like it would be a recipe for the company to implode after a few years/decades, assuming that that the managerial/executive positions aren't replaced also.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What are these decades? Is that something longer than next quarter?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there would be a hole as executives and managers move out of the company.

And why would those executives and managers care about that? They just need to make sure they time their departures to be early enough that those holes don't impact the share prices. Welcome to modern capitalism where the C suites only goal is to make sure they deploy their golden parachute while the company still has enough cash left over to pay them.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think AI is a very good example of science advancing much faster than wisdom in society. I think as these large companies continue to implement AI to increase profits while simultaneous driving out the working class, it’s only going to further drive a wedge between the upper and lower class. I foresee a “dark age” of AI characterized by large unemployment and a renewed fight focus on human rights. We might already be seeing the early stages of this in some industries like fast food and with the Hollywood strikes.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I like to compare modern LLM to Excel or calculators in the past. Some years ago a company would have an in-house team of accountants. Then came Excel and now a single accountant can do the job for 10 companies. Let's now consider programmer: currently a project manager oversees a team of programmers, most of whom are only responsible for mundane work of typing out code. With AI a single worker will be able to perform more productive than that team of programmers, because they will offload the boring work to AI and focus all their attention to what AI is perhaps incapable of.

What this article is really saying, which I agree with, is that AI improves productivity ,just like perhaps the steam engines did in the 1800's. But this time the problem is we won't increase the output and let the workers work more efficiently and earn more money, because it's not manufacturing jobs which were limited by technology that this is influencing. It's office jobs, which the economy has a pretty much fixed demand for. Workers will not improve their productivity, they will just be replaced because their work can be offloaded to a machine capable of doing that same jobs better in every significant way.

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