No Stupid Questions

I don't know how common, but I remember enough of middle school to know that just because you're a budding atheist does not prelude deep homophobia.

I've met weird people who argue that homosexuality is unnatural because it doesn't reproduce (and apparently that is the reason for existence) and thus wrong.

Same people ignore homosexuality in nature, that other animals in nature have members that contribute to their society without mating, and that no one cares what they think.

But I have met them.

My dad is an atheist and whilst he would never openly tell you he's against homosexuality. He is a homophobe in almost every sense of the word, he's had conversations with friends at the pub about how worried he was that I was gay (I'm not, I'm just not a rugby player drinking 10 pints every evening). He's not against abortion as far as I'm aware, though I would imagine he's in favour if only because it protects men against unwanted children.

My brother "came out" to him to see what his reaction would be and he essentially disowned him there and then. Neither me or my brother talk to him much anymore, he's very right wing and refuses to admit it. Failed upwards for most of his life and is quite bitter about anything existing which he isn't 100% on board with. I think his parents were somewhat religious but not aggressively so, he went to boarding school which could have something to do with it but I don't know any details about why he feels the way he does. If I asked him he'd just deny it despite all the evidence anyway, I think in his mind that as long as you SAY you're OK with it you can't be homophobic by definition

I remember him advocating strongly for every drug dealer in existence being executed, no exceptions. I then pointed out that I would be executed in that scenario because I was suspended from school for giving someone some hash and he didn't really know what to do with himself. Everything is jet black or bright white to him, there is very little room for any shades of grey.

Not sure about the US, but a lot of former soviet countries are virulently homophobic, despite high levels of atheism.

China and Japan are also quite homophobic too, despite something like 80% of the population being atheist.

Closer to home, the UK has far more atheists (google suggests almost twice as many) than the US, but is also TERF central with plenty of homophobia and transphobia.

In my experience it’s less common but not crazy rare. Atheism often comes with experience challenging society’s expectations and that means you’re usually more open minded. But these opinions aren’t inherently tied to religion. I’ve met people who argue their pro choice stance from a Christian perspective (life begins at first breath is in the Bible) and I’ve seen atheists claim that distinct genetics mean that fetuses are equally alive. Homosexuality is less easy for side switching as it’s not explicitly permitted in the Christian Bible, and opposition to it on science grounds are harder but it tends to come down to unexamined discomfort and the reasoning comes later. For atheists it will be related to the biological imperative to reproduce or eugenics and social contagion rhetoric.

Also there’s the new atheists who are basically all Alt right bigots

My elderly father would probably catch on fire if he steps into a church. But he shares basically all social values with hardcore Christians.

You can be a non believer, that was raised in a certain belief system and as such share their shitty values. I would imagine this is much more common with older atheists/agnostics/don't-care-about-religion,-only-myselfionists

lifelong atheist here and I was always taught to live and let live so do whatever the fuck you want it's your life

Neither impacts me in any appreciable manner so I don't think much about it.

I think a better question would be:

How common is it for secular humanists to take a stance against access to abortion (and/or) equal rights under the law for people who identify as something other than heterosexual?

I think the atheist part of the question is a bit strange since it really only informs us about whether or not a person has a belief in a god or deity, where as secular humanism tells us a bit more (in theory) about the social ideology of an individual.

I personally hate equivocating atheism with anything else other than the god/supernatural/intelligent design question because it can further justify the slippery slope of lumping other topics in with atheism as though it is a prescriptive ideology like religion tends to be. However, I understand what you are going for by asking this question, and I don't want to be overly pedantic.

To answer your question:

I think, as another poster already said, it probably matters if we are talking about people who self-identify as atheists vs. people who don't believe in god/gods but don't spend a lot of time thinking about their beliefs.

Generally I would venture to guess that in the first group there is a large majority who also self-identify as secular humanists, and probably take a more progressive stance on access to abortion as well as equal rights for all people regardless of sexuality/gender identity. I'm not sure I have ever met a self-identified secular humanist who took an oppositional position on either issue.

As far as people who do not self-identify as secular humanist, I would say it probably mirrors the support for the issues in a relatively similar way as the general population in their geographical area.

Not every atheist is a humanist or even pro science, so they definitely exist. For example some regions in East Germany have a high Atheist rate and a very right wing population.

I've met people like that, I think those against abortion are more common and their reasoning is that the child is alive from conception or the moment its heart starts beating, and it deserves human rights from that moment. This idea is independent from any belief in god.

Same goes for homosexuality, personally I think it's because some men (I've never met a non religious homophobic woman) find their own sense of masculinity or sexual identity challenged. I've never met a young person like this, all the examples I can think are from people who should be at least 50 yrs old today.

And honestly? I think it's more of a cultural thing. I think I've met these types of people just as much as I've met backwardly religious types. In some countries you have a lot of religious thinking but not in others.

That was me, I was raised Mormon so I had a lot of common sense that turned out to be unquestioned prejudice. Not a defence of who I was though, I was a prick.

What do you. Mean by “being against homosexuality?” This can mean:

Finding it distasteful.

Thinking it isn’t real or healthy.

Speaking out against it, trying to shame or stigmatize it.

Promoting its criminalization.

I don’t really care if people want to do 1 and 2 as long as they keep it in their heads.

I suspect it’s far less common, but I don’t have any numbers.

It depends in large part how you define “atheist”- does this include people with religious or spiritual beliefs, but don’t believe in a diety?

Or does it exclude the supernatural altogether?

Regardless, personally… I don’t care. Like, yes, absolutely equal rights to love who you want. Absolutely should be codified into law. Don’t get me wrong… everyone should have that right… and equal access to healthcare, and the rights to decide what happens to and in one’s body.

But personally… I don’t care. I don’t care if you specifically are gay, or if you’ve had six abortions in the last year. It just doesn’t matter- and it really, really Shouldn’t matter at all.

That people are trying to make it matter… trying to discriminate and make it illegal? Yes. That matters. That’s wrong and evil. Their hatred is something that we need to stand against.

I’ve only met one who was somewhat like that: my roommate in freshman year at college, he was surprisingly conservative for a US atheist and thinks abortion should only be legal if the pregnancy is life-threatening or the product of rape/incest. And it wasn’t just that issue, he had these really weird and often messed-up takes on a lot of things to the point that one can’t completely dismiss the possibility that he might just be fucking with people by exaggerating how conservative he actually is.

Though to be fair he didn’t seem to have anything against at least the L, G and B (heck, for a good 8 months he dated a girl who openly admitted to being bi on like day one of their relationship and their breakup had nothing to do with it) but that’s a very low bar these days, now homophobia in America is creeping towards extinction and, now down to 25% of the electorate (whereas a good 55% are unfortunately still transphobic), is little more than a middle-school phase except in a few really specific areas like Florida.

Are you talking about an atheist who thinks the government should stop gay people? Or an atheist who is personally homophobic or ambivalent?

I'm sure they exist to some point. To what degree do we mean atheist? Someone who self labels? Probably less so, as someone who self labels as an atheist is probably more in tune with prevailing ideas about church/state.

I'm sure things were different in the 80s and before versus now.

I would note that it’s not any part of the ethos so an atheist can be (or not) anything. A lack of faith in a deity and an absence of prescribed beliefs is precisely that after all.

So vegan and meat loving atheists can exist precisely as much as progressive and extremely conservative ones.

Is it likely or common? I’d venture so say I doubt it.

I can only speak for myself, I am a centrist gen Xer and I don't give a damn about homosexuality or abortion . I personally think they should be background noise and unimportant issues when other issues are being considered. I neither support nor oppose these issues , because I have limited emotional energy and I would rather worry about important issues.

I've not known any. But it also seems like those things have a correlative and not causative relationship.

Hole is hole. If you don't want something going into or coming out of your hole, that's your right. No imaginary friend in the sky has a say in that

Supposedly china, a country that’s largely atheist, also has issues with homosexuality. Weird how persistent that trait is.

The question as posed paints with very broad strokes. I’m guessing by “religious people” you’re probably thinking of American christians of the larger denominations.

Why do you think that religiosity is necessary to oppose queer people? In my experience, opposition to the queer community and expressions of queerness is tied to views on gender and conservative/regressive views overall. While there is certainly overlap between orthodox/regressive religiosity and said roles, you can still see a lot of bigotry from people who don’t care about what any god says, they just think “that limp-wristed fairy isn’t a REAL man”.

As with anything outside the mainstream, the experience of being an atheist (and being “out” as an atheist) can lead people to question more things that are considered normal and empathize with others, but it isn’t a given.

Sometimes deviance enforces a sense of humble and earnest examination of common truths and connection with others and their own struggles, and sometimes it enforces the view that this person knows better than the crowd so no need to really question what is definitely their own views.

Every year "secular pro-life" has a fairly large contingency at the March for Life in Washington DC.

I am myself a pro-life Catholic but I also have found nonreligious on the right are much more prone to radical and violent ideas than religious folks on the right. For example I don't know anyone who loves Trump at my church. Some just accept him as being the highly flawed option we have in the moment whereas I know some crazy lovers of his that are absolutely without religion. My experience might or might not play out in the numbers but it is my experience.