Prouvaire

joined 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

You're not the only one who's picked up on this:
https://www.primetimer.com/quickhits/the-west-wings-hartsfields-landing-has-never-made-any-damn-sense

If you watch the show (and I've watched it a lot) you can tell that Aaron Sorkin wasn't writing to a detailed plan. I think a lot of his ongoing storylines grew organically (and were often turned in very late, which ultimately led to him being sacked from the show), which meant he sometimes repeated, or retconned, beats, or made other mistakes.

Hartsfield's Landing was probably named after Hart's Location, another New Hampshire town that has often votes at midnight. I recall reading a story that, because of the weather, of the three towns that usually do vote at midnight only Dixville did so this year.

edit: Hrrm. Turns out that's what the linked CNN story actually says. Serves me right for not RTFA.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Ernest hasn't posted since last week, so hopefully he's okay. He's alluded to having a fever and having to figure out kbin's finances (and a bit before that, mentioned that he had to take on another job to cover the bills), so I'm guessing life has gotten in the way of kbin. It's worth bearing in mind that all the threadiverse projects are basically someone's hobby at the moment.

Some of us _aspire _ to dwelling in a basement!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

Magazine moderators have the ability to delete posts in their community (also pin/unpin them) and ban users from their community. I don't think it would take a huge amount of time as a rule - it's just a matter of checking in regularly (I suppose ideally several times a day) to see if there are any moderator actions that need to be taken.

Beyond that, moderators typically play a role in curating content and setting/monitoring community guidelines. But we've been talking about people being appointed solely to carry out the more technical/administrative functions in certain magazines to prevent the recent flood of spam. Ie, people have said they'd be happy to ban spam accounts without necessarily taking on the curation of the magazine in question.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Agree, but it's not a question of him appointing moderators. It's a question of people stepping up and volunteering to be moderators. There are literally thousands of kbin magazines which are currently abandoned, ie where the moderator of the magazine hasn't been active on kbin.social. Anyone can volunteer to take over ownership of these magazines by clicking a button, but there isn't enough interest in the userbase at the moment.

However, you are correct in that spammers are targeting the bigger magazines like m/fediverse, and because Ernest is owner of these magazines but is active on the site, these magazines don't appear in the abandoned magazines list. I agree that in order to ease the administrative burden on him, Ernest should call for additional moderators for these most active magazines, and even step down as the owner of these when one or more replacements have been found.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

That's good to know, thanks.

I should have had a look at codeberg before making my post. As well as the entry you identified, there's also this, a suggestion to rate limit accounts: https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/948

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submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

Have been thinking about what kbin can do to combat spam accounts, which are currently on the rise again on kbin.social.

In the past this prevalence of spam has caused issues with federation, so it's potentially a major problem not just for kbin.social but the fediverse overall if spam accounts aren't identified and blocked/deleted quickly.

USER LEVEL

Individual users can block accounts, which is good for blocking accounts that annoy you but which might otherwise contribute positively, but not so good for addressing instance-wide spammers.

MAGAZINE/COMMUNITY LEVEL

Moderators can block accounts at a magazine/community level, which is good for addressing trolls or bots that infest a single magazine, but not so good for addressing instance-wide spammers.

The other downside is that as most magazines only have a single moderator it may take days for mods to block spammers, depending on how active the mod is. In addition there are thousands of magazines on kbin which are abandoned (ie not being actively moderated), so spammers posting to these communities won't be blocked at all.

Increasing the number of mods would help (especially if they could ensure 24/7 coverage) but it's important to keep in mind that the fediverse is still tiny compared to places like reddit and there are very few people who are willing and able to take on these roles, especially on a volunteer basis.

INSTANCE LEVEL

Reporting spam

There is a "report" function, and presumably these generate messages for the instance administrator (@ernest in the case of kbin.social) to action.

I don't know what the admin interface for this is, but it may influence how easily spam accounts may be blocked. For example, if users report 100 posts belonging to 10 different accounts as spam, does this generate 100 separate messages which ernest has to review and action (which could be laborious), or does it group them into 10 different "queues" for the 10 different spam accounts (which would be less laborious to review and action).

The other limitation of course is that, like for magazine-level modding, we're constrained by the fact that kbin.social currently only has one administrator who has a job, a personal life, and is also working hard on further developing the platform.

Tools/approaches that could be used/developed to manage spam at an instance level

I'm not sure what spam combatting abilities are built into (or envisaged for) kbin at an instance level, over and above the "report" function, but some ideas I had are:

A) Appoint more administrator (or other system roles with the ability to block/delete spam accounts)

Ernest could appoint administrators (or other system-level roles, ie not necessarily a full administrator) with the ability to deal with spam.

Upsides:
- Probably relatively easy to implement (depending on what system level roles already exist)

Downsides:
- As for community moderators, there's potential issues of coverage and commitment.
- We may decry corporate-owned social media platforms like reddit, but - being a business with plenty of money coming in - they can at least pay some people to keep an eye on the community (by which I mean admins, not mods), ensure the stability and uptime of the site, and develop enhancements. These are all more difficult in small, privately-funded systems. But that's a much bigger topic, and best left for another day.

B) Limit accounts by IP address

Most spammers create multiple accounts. Limiting the number of new accounts for an IP address could help with this, although that limit shouldn't necessarily be as low as 1 (as you wouldn't want to prevent genuine alt accounts).

Upsides:
- Prevents too many accounts being created from a single IP address (ie most likely from a single person)

Downsides:
- Can be bypassed relatively easily by using VPNs (though it adds an extra step that spammers have to take)
Could prevent genuine users from registering (eg if multiple genuine users share an IP address)

C) Manually review and approve new accounts

Some instances require new accounts to answer some questions to allow admins to assess their suitability (and humanity). kbin could institute something like this.

Upsides:
- This could at least limit the creation of new spam accounts, which currently seem to spring up like weeds.

Downsides:
- This approach requires time and resources to set up and keep going.
- It impedes the sign-up experience for genuine users (especially if it takes hours or days to be approved).
- It could be bypassed by sophisticated responses to the challenge questions.

D) Rate limit new accounts

New accounts could be throttled so that they can only post one thread / reply per (let's say) 15 minutes. This limitation could be removed after a certain time or number of posts.

Upsides:
- Limits the "productivity" of spam accounts, making it more difficult for spammers.

Downsides:
- Requires time and effort to build
- Impedes user experience for genuine users
- Depending on how the posting throttling is relaxed, this system could be gamed. For instance, if the throttling is removed after (say) one week, all a spammer has to do is wait a week for the spamming to start.

E) Tie posting limits to reputation or mod reports

The above "rate limit new accounts" approach could be supplemented with an approach whereby posting limits are only removed if the account has neutral or positive reputation, and/or if the account has not been repeatedly reported for spamming.

So, for example, someone registers a new account. For the first week (or whatever time set by an admin-definable parameter), that account can only post once every 15 minutes (or whatever interval set by an admin-definable parameter).

After that first week the system reviews the status of the account. (Alternatively this review could be run "after the first X number of posts" rather than "x number of days".)

If the overall net reputation of the account is less than an admin-definable value (let's say, lower than negative 5), then the account restrictions remain in place, and the account is flagged for an admin (or similar role) to manually review and either block/delete or approve. If the net reputation is above this threshold, the posting limits are removed automatically, ie without manual intervention being required.

Alternatively (or additionally) the system could check how often posts by that account have been reported. If it has been reported more than an admin-definable value, posting limits remain in place and the account is flagged for an admin to review.

Upsides:
- Limits the "productivity" of spam accounts
- Uses the collective user base to identify spam accounts in a more sophisticated way than just reporting these to mods/admins, ie by creating a dataset which can be used by an inbuilt system to more easily help throttle/block spammers

Downsides:
- Requires considerably more time and effort to build
- Still requires a level of ongoing manual administration
- Could be "gamed" by malicious users who downvote/report even worthwhile posts (which is why I think the system should not outright block users automatically but only rate limit them, and why I think an admin should have the ability to manually approve users for normal posting. Ie, just because someone posts unpopular opinions doesn't mean they're posting spam, and a manual review could accommodate this)

THE WAY FORWARD

The above are only some potential ideas, I'm sure there are others. And I'm sure there are issues that I haven't identified either.

Perhaps the way forward is to look at what can be done:

  • short term
  • longer term

As what's required right now to stomp the current spammers on the head may not be an long-term optimal solution

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

No worries. Even more unfortunately:

https://kbin.social/u/kostyassmchuk

https://kbin.social/u/nipa

Wonder if these all originate from the same IP address and, if yes, if there's a way of banning accounts from specific IP addresses.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

The "sort by hot" algorithm was probably designed with a larger user base in mind, but I agree with you. For small communities in particular (and the vast majority of Fediverse communities are still tiny) I think even posts with no upvotes (ie no self-upvotes) should be included in the "sort by hot" view. For larger communities, where the threshold for "new" and "hot" may be set higher, so it doesn't matter so much. (I don't know what the algorithm is, but it might be something like 'hot is defined as getting a minimum of X votes, where X scales with the size or activity intensity of the community'.)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It means you weren't the first person on your server to subscribe that community/magazine.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

It would be nice to see people engaging with old posts when they stumble across a community and subscribe to it.

One barrier that will make this difficult is that instances only get a community's feed from the moment they first subscribe to it, if that community's home instance is on another server. So if you're a user on - say - leminal.space and you're the first person on that server to subscribe to - say - [email protected] then you will not see any of that community's old posts, only posts created (or boosted) after you've subscribed. This makes it difficult to engage with old content unless other people on your instance have been members of that community for much longer.

This is one of the issues with the fediverse model that doesn't exist in a centralised model like reddit. And - sadly - smaller, niche communities are the ones most likely to be affected by this limitation, because they're the ones least likely to be federated to a large number of instances. It makes smaller, less active communities look even more inactive than they actually are.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It may have something to do with the bug mentioned here:

The improved collapsible comments add-on, part of the original KES collection in version 1.0.0, has some conflicts with kbin's own implementation of collapsible comments. I am cleaning this up, but it may take some time

 

Ernest recently posted a site update, which included this note:

When Kbin suddenly gained popularity, the project's maintenance costs far exceeded my initial estimates. While community support still allows for the cluster's maintenance, I also need to take care of my own livelihood and commitments.

You may not know (or may have forgotten) that you can directly support kbin and Ernest financially via the following:

As he wrote back in July:

Many of you asked me about the possibility of recurring support. I wasn't entirely convinced, especially since the current account balance should maintain the instance. However, I think it would be irresponsible of me not to consider it. /kbin has grown to a level where I can't foresee everything that will happen. It would be great if we could cover monthly costs with Patreon / Liberapay. All funds from Buy Me a Coffee will be transferred to this pool, but from now on, I'll treat it as buying me a coffee... or a beer... literally ;)

It would be nice if he got a few more messages like this: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/kbin/c/6876421

edit: fixed typo

 

https://kbin.social/m/Musicals - our home instance, containing all older posts

Musicals - link if you're on a lemmy site

Musicals - link if you're on a kbin site

What: A community for news and chat about musicals, old and new, big and small, famous and obscure... good and bad.

Where: New York's Broadway and off-Broadway, London's West End and off-West End, elsewhere in the United States, United Kingdom, Europe, Australia, Asia and around the world.

Who: Whether you're a lifelong or up-and-coming musical theatre fan, performer, designer, composer, book writer, lyricist, director or producer: join us (leave your fields to flower).

Willkommen: Introduce yourself here.

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