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Hamas could achieve a cease-fire right now by releasing the hostages. But then they would have to account for the ones they have already murdered.
Who is down voting this and why are you down voting it? Explain yourself
Troll farms or pro hamas tankies
stop caring for downvotes on this topic. this discussion has lost its objectivity a long time ago and the current meta is that israel is bad and should somehow bow to terrorism.
I don't know why though 😅
If Hamas releases every single hostage they have, they cannot prove they have no more hostages. So the situation would not change.
There is no de-escalation from the current positions, there is going to be an invasion, and Hamas is going to be destroyed, at least as it exist today.
I did. There's no fucking way this all stops if Hamas just releases the hostages. This is a completely delusional statement.
Ok, yeah, this is the response of a very normal and rational person.
Actually I don’t see one downvote to the comment. But I am a Kbin user so it is always a bit different here.
Just one question: You are usually not able to see who favorited or reduced a comment/article on Lemmy? On kbin you get all those infos.
Lol, lets just assume for simplicity this is exactly what Hamas demands:
Israel doesn't care, they already killed several hostages in the bombing runs. Hell the US probably had to tell them to hold back to give them more time for negotiations. They will not accept any agreement with Hamas, so the only thing Hamas would accomplish releasing the Hostages with no agreement would be an instant full invasion.
Moreover, the actual demands from Hamas are basically cease fire + release arrested hamas members in exchange for hostages. Surprisingly, I don't think they actually made one of those impossible demands like "cease the existence of Israel's government"
The reason Hamas is trickling out hostages is because unlike Israel, every other nation does care about the hostages, especially the international ones. Hamas knows this, and can use it as leverage to force Israel to either slow down, stop, or eventually negotiate some sort of agreement. The most important one obviously being the American hostages because the USA has direct military involvement and leverage over Israel.
Whether or not it works is a different story.
Because I can.
I'm pretty sure that's not true. Hamas has already tried that path, but Israel is out for blood. Netenyahu's position is that the incursion should proceed even though it'll kill hostages.
Hamas has never tried for peace.
Okay I'm not exactly a fan of Hamas but that's very, very wrong.
I'm pretty well informed in the area, but willing to learn. Can you please link to information about any time since it's inception that Hamas has offered peaceful relations with Israel?
Israel has made peace with Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, Qatar, UAE, etc, often in exchange for Israel giving up land.
Well not really peaceful relations, but there were two ceasefires, one in 2008 and another in 2012, that Hamas followed in good faith until it was clear that Israel had no intention of doing that (the 2012 one they kept for more than a year). Both included Israel completely lifting the blockade, which they didn't do no matter how long Hamas waited.
BTW Hamas is uh... Hamas, but they changed their charter in 2017 to only demand a return to 1967 borders.
The 2017 Hamas charter reads:
Which is nonetheless an improvement over the founding charter:
There's also this in the same document:
I know that. Do you think that this is evidence that
It is obviously not.
It only acknowledges that Hamas will not oppose such a plan if it is approved by the Palestinian people, along with the specific conditions listed. The document outlines that the long-term demand is irrevocably all of the land from The River To The Sea as a State of Palestine and no State of Israel whatsoever.
It's unambiguous.
But you already saw that because you have read the document. I'm no longer addressing these comments to you, but to the people who've actually read this far in the thread and are interested in learning, rather than propaganda.
So let's look at those specific conditions listed. According to the 2017 charter, who are the "refugees and the displaced?" You might reasonably think that refers to the 700,000 Palestinians who were displaced by the 1948 war. No, as the charter specifies, it is any of the 6.4 million people who can identify at least one Palestinian ancestor. That is over 60% of the current population of Israel. It includes third-generation Americans and Europeans. It includes most members of Hamas.
And what is Israel supposed to do with this 65% increase in population? Again, it's specified in the charter. Israel must "return their homes," meaning provide a physical house for every family at no cost. Additionally, Israel must pay unspecified reparations. There is no amount of reparations that would be acceptable in place of a physical house in Israel, nor any other tolerable location.
To reiterate, Hamas will temporarily recognize a Palestinian State within the 1967 borders
If and only if
Israel agrees to absorb 6.4 million people into a population of under 10 million (including members of Hamas), buy them each a house, pay them additional reparations, and give up any claim on Jerusalem or the 5 holiest sites in Judaism.
Again, this is not my opinion, it is all laid out in the charter itself.
The belief that Hamas is anything other than a terrorist organization intent on eliminating the only Jewish-majority state in the world, is just not borne out by any version of reality.
Meanwhile, Israel has peacefully turned over more land and resources than the entire current area of the State in exchange for peace with neighbors. Israel has offered Palestinian leaders nearly every inch of the land of Palestine, but every offer has been rejected by the Palestinian leaders. Don't be confused by Propaganda.
I mean yes. Those are the descendants of the people who were displaced by Israel, and they have a right to return to their homes.
That's misinformation. It's a pain to list all of them, so if anyone bothered to read this far and is curious about why any specific offer failed, just ask. Hint: The answer is usually that Israel, not Palestine, refused to compromise.
It's not tho
Why wouldn't Israel be out for blood? America glassed entire countries when provoked, why did anyone think or expect Israel to just take the Oct 7 attack and shrug it off/not react? Fuck Hamas and their "peace attempts" after murdering festival goers and families.
America has never glassed any entire country, they’ve used exactly 2 nuclear bombs on one country and it was two cities, not the whole county.
Yeah but they way people talk about the USA online you would think they systematically genocided a whole race or glassed a country or something. And it's not euphemisms. People write that shit as if they believed it sincerely
Also fuck leftists terrorists apologizers
And did it work? You're implying the war on terror was anything more than a disaster.
I'm saying it's funny you want Israel to take an attack without reaction, after you've reaped the benefits of colonizing and fucking up entire natiions. Imagine if after 9/11, the Taliban had said "we want peace now", would you or any other American have accepted their peace overture?
Yeah I would since the Taliban had jack shit to do with 9/11. Bombing and invading them for 20 years accomplished absolutely nothing. The US isn't any safer and Afghanistan is worse off.
It's actually a stupid question when you think about it. Would I save thousands of lives on both sides that were needlessly wasted? Yeah, I would. But you just want blood so you don't give a fuck about hearing reason.
I'm from Egypt, so my country was on the other side of colonialism, but that's irrelevant either way.
The Taliban didn't do 9/11, but that aside 9/11 and this attack are fundamentally different. A closer comparison would be terror attacks against Britain during the Troubles.
Fuck Israel for occupying Palestinian lands and bombing and killing innocent men, women and many many many children.
That's a lot of down votes for an honest statement
you're on lemmy, what do you expect?
It's just tiring at this point. Even if you have lived there, aren't a zionist, family been there for 500+ years, and try to cut through all the bullshit to explain the context no one cares. It's just politically extremist tribalism which is exactly what caused the issue we are discussing.
There's also a lot of censorship going on and it's a bit sick since the posts and comments I've seen censored often include Palestinians talking about the situation. largely ones from Hamas, some who left. It doesn't fit whatever whoever is doing the removing wants on the front page I guess.
Who's removing that?
I just see the mod log entries and "post_not_found" errors in my comment history. But it's against the rules to be more specific.
Sometimes it seems like a legitimate site error because I can see the comments in the web UI but not the app api.
It's quite interesting looking at Lemmy and then going back and looking at Reddit. The latter is taking IDF's words as gospel, and the former likes to pretend Hamas and their atrocities don't exist.
Flitting between the two actually helps cancel out the absurd bias.
Hamas will only release the hostages in exchange for all Palestinians in Israeli jails