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I don’t know much about Peltz but I kind of agree that you don’t NEED to have all black or all women cast. The art should dictate it. But on the flip side, having an all black or all women cast isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Representation in media may not matter to some, but it can make a big impact on others.
Furthermore, most of Africa is black. What were you expecting out of Black Panther????
It's mostly not necessary, just like it's not necessary to have an all-white cast. In the last few years I came to realize that colorblind casting doesn't diminish great art, just like it won't help bad art to become better. I'm not saying casting should always be colorblind, but in sci-fi and fantasy movies I don't see skin color or gender matter at all.
It's been a minute since I saw Black Panther. But didn't they shoehorn Martin Freeman's character to add some white diversity as a token white guy?
Everett Ross is associated with Black Panther in the comics as well... And is basically a token there. But his existence predates the Disney acquisition.
Sure, it isn't necessary, but would he say the same thing about an all white or all male cast? That's the default, so having something to show the default isn't the only option is good too. As a cis straight white man, I don't give a fuck if there isn't a straight white man in a movie. Why should I? I see myself everywhere being validated. Let's give other people extra space because they've been denied it for so long.
I get your point but I mean Wakanda is supposed to be the most technologically advanced society. Why shouldn't diversity sort of be a given in that context? Because only fellow Africans can be trusted to keep the place a secret?
They completely cut off their society from the rest of the world, it's not like any African gets a pass in, they don't allow anyone that isn't Wakandan. It was like, a pretty significant plot point.
Yea well like I said in the other comment, a society that advanced free from cooperation with other cultures or people seems unlikely. The point of their isolation isn't lost on me. Still I wouldn't know why zero tolerance towards that policy would be necessary or sustainable while thriving for technological innovation.
You think that part is 'unlikely' in a movie about people with super powers?
You got me there ngl. I'm not saying Black Panther has plot holes, I'm not even saying that the cast should've been more diverse because Disney or whatever. I was just trying to level with @[email protected] saying the art should dictate the content instead of executives bending it to their will. In the case of Black Panther it was probably the art or the source material anyways so no real issue there.
a society that advanced free from cooperation with other cultures or people seems unlikely
True. The writers probably agree. Hence Wakanda literally having been built on top of a literal mountain of magic space science unobtainium that makes science go brrr practically by just being there.
Oh, and with magic drugs that allow Wakandan leaders to not only single handedly beat up any would be invaders, but also share the wisdom and acquired knowledge of all their ancestors.
Seems quite less unlikely and unsustainable when you take into account those two little details. 🤷♂️
Not trying to point out lack of realism in a work of fiction anyways. I was just trying to suggest that diversity hires could've been the name of the Disney game on those movies just as they are on many others. When it comes to representation there's definitely no need to diversify a majority black cast. At least not for the sake of more caucasian faces. But I really do feel the words "the art should dictate it". Black Panther's source material was probably honored quite faithfully.
Well, yeah. Do you not know the history of Black Panther? You just talking out your ass? The whole idea was isolationism in the face of colonialism.
Seems kinda hostile. Africans can be born without pigmentation for one thing. And just because there are colonial powers doesn't mean a society has to be so bigoted (which they clearly aren't in universe) to see everyone who doesn't look like themselves as part of "the others". They allowed the Avengers in anyways. But my point was meant more like, technology thrives when cultures and people come together.
That's cool. You can go make that thing because that has absolutely nothing to do with Wakanda.
It sounds like you’re implying Africans have an inability to develop a technologically advanced society on their own.
Well how far do you want me to go in refuting that? Would attributing the US space program to the leftover Nazi braintrust be too far? I'm saying what I have said. That no people on their own can truly thrive. We excel when we work together (the moral implications of working with ex white supremacists exist but don't negate that fact).
But yea sure we're talking about a work of fiction. I just thought that people here feel that vibe of Disney pushing diversity for the sake of diversity. I feel like that does raise certain valid points about artistic integrity. And if that makes me sound to you like the guy who can't stand the thought of a female Bond then that's you reading stuff into it that I haven't said.
To me turning Arielle black is like making Maleficent the protagonist. If something works (not for me personally but for audiences in general) then it will be rewarded accordingly. Whether i.e. The Marvels worked is up for everyone to decide.
Neither of those casts were all anything, apart from human.
Found the alien activist
Fun story when they made that psycho Transformers movie with the laminated age of consent law and the product placement transformer made out of Oreo vending machines, Peltz's daughter is the teenager it's supposed to be legal to molest and Peltz was on the Oreo company board.
People like this shouldn’t ever be considered ‘creative’. Dunno how we got here but glad they are choosing to reverse that decision.
Wait, what? What psycho transformers movie is this?!
Edit: nevermind. I looked up the scene. Whatever the fuck was that?!
I don't care if it's all women or all black, I just don't want another Marvel movie. Ever.
Why would you have a movie set in Africa have a nearly all black cast? He's seriously asking that? Apparently you don't need basic intelligence to be a billionaire. How often does he ask why shows like Billions or Succession have to be about white families?
AGREED! Why should I use BLACK ACTORS just because the movie takes place in a country with MAJORITY Black People? And WHY on God's Green Earth should I cast WOMEN to play FEMALE Superheroes?
If you’re angry about the critical and financial success that is Black Panther, tells me you’re not an investor, just a racist idiot.
What all black cast is he talking about? And yes the marvels was all women but... They didn't even fucking gender swap the characters like Ghostbusters or something like that?
And out of all the fucking MCU it's the only movie with three female leads.
Edit- Jesus Christ I'm an idiot. It hit me. He's bitching that Black panther was about black people isn't he??
He’s also upset that the black panther wore a black suit.
I mean why wouldn't the cast of the Black Panther be mainly black? That's just weird that you wouldn't have it that way. Also Captain Marvel and Ms Marvel are both female characters I don't know what this guy is after here. Why would he pick those examples?
Because whenever a movie or TV show or video game has anything except a cis hetero white man as the main character, people like this start screeching. They aren't satisfied with having people that look like themselves represented in the vast majority of main characters. They view any time a character not matching the above description shows up in some kind of media as discrimination against themselves. Any slight reduction in privilage they mistake for real discrimination. They mask this by claiming they're just concerned with the integrity of the art or some nonsense, especially the gamer gate type crowd.
Anytime a gay character or a female character or someone pops up they start yelling, "why does this character have to be gay? It must be lazy pandering at the expense of a good story." To which I would pose the same question back to them. Any piece of media featuring a straight cis white man, why does the character have to be a straight white man? Must be lazy pandering at the expense of story.
Or maybe, just maybe, it's more interesting to have a wide variety of characters and stories in media. Sometimes people are just gay, or are just straight, or just female, or just male. It might have a big impact in a story and it might not. It shouldn't be "unless this is a story specifically about the gay/female/black experience the character must be straight/male/white by default." If that is going to be part of that piece of media, great, but it doesn't necessarily have to be depending on the story being told. You'll never see this crowd upset with a straight white male character for these reasons though, very transparent.
if you like any of these movies you're a baby