this post was submitted on 04 May 2024
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politics

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Their tax rate isn’t the real issue. The fact that they extract that much wealth out of the labor and production of others is the real problem.

No human being should have a billion dollars. The workers who got you to your level of privilege and status should be paid based on their worth.

A boss that pays fairly would never become a billionaire, and their workers would live good lives being paid the actual value of their labor. Increased demand from increased household discretionary income would create a boom on the supply side.

But it will never happen, because billionaires own everything and will always manufacture consent. Democracy will die to thunderous applause.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Although this is true, I'd like this graph on a billboard outside every polling location in November:

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

That there are even billionaires, let alone multi-billionaires. It's an immoral, unethical system that fundamentally exploited labor that allowed for this.

That productivity has gone up but wages have remained stagnant should boil everyone's blood. All the wealth stolen and sent upwards into fewer and fewer hands. Legalized theft by way of capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Tax the rich, the banks, and the churches. Then see if you still need anything from the normies.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Why would they? The rich, the banks, and the churches are the ones who get to choose who gets taxed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Taxing billionaires will just get rolled back, the problem is Capitalism itself.

Collectivize the Means of Production.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

For the FIRST time? Yeah, no. How about ALL the time?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Did you see a flaw in the analysis? Not sure what you mean

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This is something Warren Buffet has been complaining about for years. It's not exactly a new development.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

He’s talked about not paying his fair share. I don’t recall him ever saying “billionaires literally pay a lower effective tax rate”.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

From 2012:

https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/01/warren-buffett-and-his-secretary-talk-taxes

"Buffett's secretary since 1993, Debbie Bosanek, sat next to her boss just hours after being invited by the president to the State of the Union address, where the president made her the face of tax inequality in America.

Bosanek pays a tax rate of 35.8 percent of income, while Buffett pays a rate at 17.4 percent."

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Not even our closest cousins would tolerate a member that hoarded bananas so. No, it would be fangs, and ripping and all sorts of face-eating, and a whole bunch of other stuff we should be taking inspiration from.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

for the first time

Nobody ask about the long-term capital gains rate going back to Ronald Reagan's '83 reform.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Not 100% sure but I imagine they’d count capital gains in the analysis. The full read in The NY Times was interesting but behind a paywall

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

But it isn't for the first time. This has been happening for years

https://youtu.be/kXCGbAv8YPw

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Sometimes I think we shouldn’t have photoshop.

Then I drink more 🖖🏻

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Sisko is the best captain.

Hands down. He tko’d Q… and lived to tell about it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

What the MSM considers normal regular American I consider upperclass. What they consider poor I consider normal. What they consider homeless is actually the new poor.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, a whole lot of working folks are one missed paycheck from homelessness. I'm old enough to remember that it wasn't always like this, if you were working you didn't have nearly so much anxiety and exhaustion, you could afford to look after a kid or have the occasional holiday, maybe own a home. Not anymore. The rich are getting richer though.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I've watched some of my friends struggle with homelessness. They are amazing people with brilliant minds, but just got unlucky while working a dead end job. It's fucking terrible.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, it's really messed up. And getting worse. I'm just not sure how we change it without violence though. Voting doesn't fucking help. And, like me, most of the people who are hurting don't want violent change. Rightly, because like capitalism, revolution hurts a lot of people. But it feels like society is a balloon and the rich are squeezing it and wondering when it'll pop. It's hard to predict what's gonna happen but based on the way things have been I'd say worse.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

A general, mass strike would probably never happen. But it should. More strikes in general. I feel like there are still things to try before going full Joker

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (9 children)

Great article. Nice to see an economist doing such important work. I don't really understand finances. I snipped the parts of the article that helped me understand the finding/headling. There's a great chart in the article of taxation differences since the 1960s too - staggering! Plutocracy in action!

Published in The New York Times with the headline "It's Time to Tax the Billionaires," Zucman's analysis notes that billionaires pay so little in taxes relative to their vast fortunes because they "live off their wealth"—mostly in the form of stock holdings—rather than wages and salaries.

Stock gains aren't currently taxed in the U.S. until the underlying asset is sold, leaving billionaires like Amazon founder Jeff Bezos and Tesla CEO Elon Musk—a pair frequently competing to be the single richest man on the planet—with very little taxable income.

"But they can still make eye-popping purchases by borrowing against their assets," Zucman noted. "Mr. Musk, for example, used his shares in Tesla as collateral to rustle up around $13 billion in tax-free loans to put toward his acquisition of Twitter."

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (8 children)

This is easy to solve. Count the loans as ordinary income. Problem solved.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I had to take an insane amount of loans out to get my nursing license. I'll be paying them off for over a decade. I don't like this idea

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Trump has said if he's elected he'll lower the tax rate for the rich even more.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Once again, the problem is that the banks aren't being taxed. The reason the billionaires don't pay taxes is that they buy everything with money they borrow from the banks.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Borrowing against assets should be income that cannot be offset by the debt.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You want to squints get rid of mortgages and thereby get rid of home ownership?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Good point.. it might have come across like that.. but that is for sure not what I meant.

A home is already taxed. An asset portfolio like stock only when realized. Borrowing against it should count as realizing the gains.

Or maybe better yet, we tax the whole portfolio like we do real estate against the value at the measuring point. Cause a portfolio is either something because it is used as collateral and thus taxed.. or it's nothing and cannot be borrowed against without realizing the gains.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think torches, and pitchforks. We should go old school.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I wish people would say this and mean it. I'm waiting. I think we should actually eat one billionaire to make a point. I'm vegetarian but I'll take a bite to prove my commitment.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It's kind of a naive idea though. I used to think it was possible. They will literally just kill us or actively make us poor/homeless/antisocial and make some sort of loophole to make it legal and justified. I wish I didn't think it was game over for the nation but I think it's actually a lost cause. And any time I try to talk to someone in hopes they can influence me otherwise they just prove my point and make me want to give up more. It's like they create a division on purpose, or the benefit of the doubt is that they are too naive or emotional to understand what they are actually doing which is creating more of the people they claim to oppose.

It's like a natural force that keeps war in constant motion. Nobody is allowed to just "be". Doesn't matter if they contribute to society or not. People are disposable to groups and nations. It's an industry. Probably the one that maintains the backbone or foundation of each group/nation/force.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If we tax them they won’t be incentivized to make more money, thus depriving the market of needed jobs. /s

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Just like we never should have bailed out corporations we should not worry about taxing corporations or the rich. The void will be filled and more rich people will be made. That's how the "free market" works. If you do not let companies die innovation slows and the economy rots. Rich people may not be motivated but some poor people will be.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Fat orange and his repuglican crew got it done

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Yeah, Trump was standing on the shoulders of giants like Regan, Bush, and Bush to get us into mess. Thanks Republicans!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Do not forget Bill Clinton, he played a huge role. Essentially fulfilling republican dreams of deregulation by joining hands with them. It's when the Democratic party embraced corporate interests and neoliberalism. Clinton deregulated banking (see Glass-Steagall) which led to the financial crisis and banking/finance today.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

They used to push for a flat tax where everyone, billionaires and minimum wage workers alike, would pay the same rate. They did one better and now billionaires pay a lower rate than everyone else. Steve Forbes was an idiot. They managed to do it far better than he could have ever imagined when he ran for President in the 90's. Fucking nepo babies...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Flat tax is an awful idea.

Say they make it 10%

When you make $30k a year, $3,000 has a much higer impact on your finances than someone who makes $3,000,000 and pays $300,000 in taxes. You keep $27,000, they keep $2,700,000. You lose a mortgage payment and a car payment. They have to buy a slightly smaller yacht.

On top of that, as already mentioned, their wealth comes from stocks and other non-wages income. Bezos famously only took $81,000 (I think?) in actual pay for many years, yet he’s one of the richest people on the planet. You think $8,100 in taxes is good enough for one of the richest people while you pay $3k out of your $30k?

Flat tax is a bad idea, and the only ones who want it are the wealthy and those who don’t understand that the wealthy could take whatever salary they want to pay as little tax as possible and just live off stocks, loans, which is how they already avoid paying taxes.

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