How do you declare war on a state you don’t recognize?
this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
286 points (96.7% liked)
World News
38188 readers
1978 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Invade Crimea?
Not sure if you're trying to be clever? You can start a war against anyone or anything.
...take the War on Christmas, for example
You can attack anyone or anything but formal declarations of war are usually state actions.
I guess I’m partly being clever and pointing out that Israel is waving this word “war” around very generously right now, because they’re always dramatizing the direness of their situation, mainly for the American audience. But technically they shouldn’t be using this word unless they recognize the state of Palestine, which they have historically refused to do.
So, as usual, they’re trying to have it both ways.
I'm not sure I understand. Does war declaration being a state action require recognition the state of Palestine? Or can they declare war on "Hamas" or any other entity/group of people. Or do they even have to state who they are at war against? Can they just say "we are at war"?
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
It's a not-so-civil war, if you will
Show me a civil war and I’ll show you a friendly murder.
load more comments
(10 replies)
Wonderful. Now we have two wars that just happen to rile up needless political grandstanding for the uninvolved to fight over, so we wont have to think about the millions of innocents killed in the fighting.
Or any really important issues at home.
I dunno, I do sort of think that the deaths of innocent men, women, and children who lived between two warring nations is a big enough deal for us to set down our current affairs.
Im pissed that instead its going to be used as a proxy argument for ongoing at home political pissing matches.
This should make us pause our issues at home. Instead, its going to be used as fuel for the issues at home.
While millions die.
That's actually a pretty privileged pov. The hierarchy of need isn't very forgiving. When you can't feed your kids, or yourself, it's hard to give all your attention to a war going on across the world. Which is why US leaders should be leading the US first, instead of dragging foreign wars into their debates so they can try to get political points before an election.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/fkmV2LPlPS4?si=EuVdltk6wtu9XtYZ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
We don’t get many declarations of war these days. Usually they are just special military actions, or security operations, or something like that. What makes this different?
Probably something about an outright attack against civilians for literally no fucking reason..... ya know just "gotta not let them kill us" kinda reasons?
There's also a decent chance they actually have some sort of government structure that doesnt allow military spending of certain types without a declaration of war.
Wait, you think there is "no fucking reason" that Hamas exists and is doing what they're doing?
load more comments
(6 replies)
Israel is constantly catastrophizing their situation to win sympathy and demonize their enemy. Usually they try to avoid this kind of language because, being the only ones with an organized military, it would be a bad look to be at war with a bunch of refugees. But since they’ve been attacked they’re doing everything they can to paint that attack in the most bombastic terms possible 1) to win sympathy and 2) to justify the military devastation they are about to unleash on a civilian population.
Following our decades-long invasion of Palestine and continually calling for Palestine's removal and the genocide of the Palestinian people, we are now calling it war.
Damn, maybe palestine should have accepted the two state plan in 1947 instead of trying to eliminate all Israeli Jews at the time.
Israel accepted it. Palestine started killing civilians. Then got their asses handed to them repeatedly.
You have to understand though, prior to the UN proposal, it was all just Palestine. Why should the Palestinians have accepted a UN (foreign, primarily western at the time) proposal to give half of their land to a minority who only began immigrating there en masse in the last 50 years? This was the period of decolonization, and while the rest of the Arab world and Africa was gaining their independence, Palestine was just getting a new map drawn on them by their western colonizers.
It’s easy to say with another 70 years of perspective that it didn’t work out for them, but in 1947 Israel was nothing more than an idea championed by a minority of religious extremists, viewed as terrorists even in the west.
Prior to the UN proposal it was a British territory. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.
Palestine has never existed as an independent state.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Wow, how gracious of israel, with the backing of the most powerful militaries in the world arrayed against a country without significant military allies, to nominally agree to a two-state plan and then for 75 years violate treaties, kill civilians and constantly invade the other state that essentially can't fight back.
Super brave of them to constantly show force with the US military backing them.
I'm sure Israel appreciates you admiring their genocide.
load more comments
(2 replies)
It doesn't matter anyone's opinion on Isarel or Palestians or Palestine, rhe bottom line is this is likely the end game. The chances of gaza being occupied by anyone much less Palestians is near zero.
I think chances for the West Bank to survive are still there since they aren't controlled byHamas and Fatah have collaborated on security with Israel. But I still think hardliners crazies in Israel could successfully expand this to include the west Bank.
The bottom line is that by committing mass war crimes and crimes against humanity, Hamas has doomed itself and the entire Gaza strip.
I am NOT weighing in on right or wrong. I personally don't think there are any innocent governments in this. I'm simply saying that by giving up the high ground and committing these crimes, Gaza has doomed itself, and Israel has enough internationally recognized pretext to end it all.
Gaza was doomed anyway. The West Bank was also doomed. Any land that the far-right fascists in Israel have their eyes on is doomed because they have the full force of the west backing them (no matter if they pretend to wag their finger at them from time to time) and they've got other countries like Egypt and Saudi Arabia backing them. The plan all along was to take the land and it was only a matter of time. GG, enjoy your ethnostate, fascists.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
So their mass murder of civilians will now be under the guise of a war. Sigh
It's a shame humanity hasn't learned more from the last century, this one wasn't supposed to be a sequel.
War continues but the scale really is miniscule compared to the 1900s.
26,000 American soldiers died in 36 days of fighting on Iwo Jima.
1900 Americans were killed in 20 years in Afghanistan.
I don’t minimize any deaths here, but the direction the numbers are going in gives me hope for the future, not despair.
The post 9/11 wars resulted in the deaths of nearly 1 million people
Yes civilian deaths were higher. But military deaths are able to be counted more reliably so they are easier to compare.
Estimates are that 38 million civilians died in WW2, so there you go. That number is way higher too.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Always is.
This seems like a really unevenly weighted war. Israel has nukes and is supported by most of the west. Vengeance and violence are also never a good mix so this will likely get ugly fast. It'll be interesting to see where the line is, if it exists at all, on how much violence the West will publicly support.
view more: next ›