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It seems to me that they're planning on squeezing the people from the north into the south, then closing off the north from any return. This is consistent with a plan of annexing and depopulating Gaza.
If so, this would be ethnic cleansing. This strategy appears to be genocide.
One issue the IDF has been working with for a while is the sheer amount of tunneling by Hamas. There is dense housing right on top of the tunnels. Destroying the tunnels can lead to the above buildings collapsing, as well as the damage caused by any explosives.
Will they annex and depopulate Gaza? I hope not. That's just going to create another generation of fighters itching for revenge. Grievances outlast Hamas, and they will likely find a form. That said, maybe a single state solution will be the best form of government, as long as Palestinians, Jewish Israelis, and other groups are guaranteed equal rights. The half-ass "two state" attempt right now isn't working.
That said, maybe a single state solution will be the best form of government, as long as Palestinians, Jewish Israelis, and other groups are guaranteed equal rights. The half-ass "two state" attempt right now isn't working.
I guarantee, if they actually offered that nobody would complain. But they won't, to "preserve Israel's Jewish character". See: Their rejection of Palestinian right of return.
Hell, if they were willing to do that Israel wouldn't exist and we'd just have had a unified Palestine in 1948.
They want to keep Gaza and the West Bank under military rule until they can fully depopulate them and create Lebensraum.
exactly. Israel is currently creating hamas 2.0 - you think all of those dead children won’t be avenged by their parents? or the dead parents won’t be avenged by their children?? their approach is and has always been to completely destroy palestinians, this was their opportunity.
The half-ass "two state" attempt right now isn't working.
It's because it's half-assed, by Netanyahu. He won't allow Palestine state to be formed, as well as will not return the West Bank and evict the illegal settlement, but instead either allow the settler to stay or carve that land for himself. He also want Palestine to demilitarised. A country without military is a sitting duck, so it's understandable no one wanted that.
I agree with this 100%. I think it needs to get said more, and more: Palestinians deserve full civil rights including the freedom of movement throughout a single state covering all of historic Palestine.
No, they're just going to kill everyone in the north then turn around and attack the south, pressuring Egypt into opening its borders and displacing the rest of the population into the Sinai Peninsula. The blackout is back, so they can kill indiscriminately now.
Then use Gaza as a neutral zone, something like North and South Korea have to cut off all ties.
Then it's just a matter of time to do the same to the West Bank.
They're already lobbying the EU and US to put pressure on Egypt to give up the Sinai peninsula (like it's so normal to give up an entire fucking peninsula). That's why Sisi said Europe should take in Gazans themselves if they care so much about human rights.
You know about Netanyahu's plans we heard about a few days ago and everybody shrugged it off as a 'theory/study? This is exactly what's happening.
This also explains why they don't care about civilian casualties. There will be no Gaza anymore, and the more Palestinians they kill right now, the less future terrorists for them (their opinion).
Israel doesn't give a shit about Gaza. Gaza is a distraction. The real deal is the West Bank were the settlers/militia are being armed by Israel. There are already videos of Ben Gvir giving assault weapons to the settlers and riling them up. They are the ones who will commit the genocide in Israel's behalf. Shit is already going down. The militia is depopulating villages, commuting murder and arson, all while the IDF just stands and watches. But the media only shows Gaza. Even Biden already realized what happened and is shitting his britches realizing he supported what is about to happen. This are the first stages of a genocide.
they want both Gaza AND Palestine, that's why Netanyahu was supporting Hamas, to use them against the PA in the west bank
I agree with you. I'm not sure where we're in disagreement.
I don't know the precise planning. I'm guessing Israel would prefer to focus on depopulating Gaza first, and let the Settlers terrorize the West Bank until they're ready to reallocate troops. Then I think that once they've got secure control of Gaza, they'll wait for an opportunistic terror attack in the West Bank as pretense to redirect the troops. But I think they want to fully conquer Gaza first to avoid dividing their forces.
Like I said, though, I think we all agree on the overall plan, we just don't know the exact battle plan. But Genocide is the intent.
This was my thought as well. No one will ever be allowed back in that city. It will either be a military base or a wasteland for decades.
It does make sense in terms of working in a box for military awareness of enemy combatants. No expert, but that is something we've seen before.
The more accurate description is "Israel's war against Palestine". And, given the power difference and stated goals: "Israel's ongoing genocide of Palestine".
And if you think that it sounds a bit too disturbing, just try to imagine a pile of 4000 children. It might ruin your day.
I'm glad Lemmy doesn't censor the amount of upvotes and downvotes.
It's good to see how many people here support/oppose certain ideas.
Kind of a breath of fresh air after being on that other hellhole for so long.
Sorry, can't use the G word apparently because there are almost 1 million Palestinians and Israel hasn't tried to kill all of them. According to the big brains out there you can't call out an attempt at genocide unless it's full force, plain as day to see, and maximum death count.
...Sigh.
And the world will just watch as this campaign of ethnic cleansing continues. I'm sickened
Wasn't Gaza already surrounded before all this? It's a giant prison - it even has walls around the perimeter.
Yes but I think the point now is to take it.
They can say whatever bullshit lies they want, but a popular defense of the current situation is "they had a war and Israel won, so deal with it." So following that logic, if they win this war against "Hamas" (they'll consider all of Palestine Hamas of course) they'll just take Palestine in this war.
I'm like 50/50 on it, but I can definitely see Israel just ending the issue on paper by making it all Israel. The problem of people becomes the UNs problem or other countries that actually give a shit about people.
The problem is that the Palestinians are stuck in Gaza because no one really cares about them. The Palestinians are more convenient as pawns to use in a proxy war against Israel (for example by Iran and Syria) than to actually achieve a permanent, stable arrangement. For Netanyahu, achieving a settlement alienates his base which wants to expel the Palestinians completely, and the conflict maintains anxiety that keeps him elected.
Earlier on Sunday, Israeli warplanes struck two central Gaza refugee camps, killing at least 53 people and wounding dozens, health officials said.
Israel said it would press on with its offensive against Hamas, despite US appeals for even brief pauses to get aid to desperate civilians.
The Palestinian health ministry said more than 9,700 Palestinians have been killed in the territory in nearly a month of war, more than 4,000 of them children. That toll likely will rise as Israeli troops advance into dense, urban neighbourhoods.
Air strikes hit the Maghazi refugee camp overnight, killing at least 40 people and wounding 34 others, the health ministry said.
The camp is in the zone where Israel’s military had urged Palestinian civilians to seek refuge.
Every day more of this. Israel clearly doesn't care about civilians and children and will kill anyone it feels like killing.
There's a survivor account translated by Electronic Intifada(mediabiasfactcheck rated them left bias, pro-palestine, mostly factual but not high due to no transparency on their funding, pinch of salt applies) saying IDF, in their effort to kill Hamas combatant, killed israeli held hostaged by Hamas in Be'eri in heavy crossfire, and also shelled the home to eliminate any hiding combatant.
There's also an interview with IDF soldier on the front line that day, as reported by Gray Zone(extreme left, mixed fact, highly opinionated, kilogram of salt applies. They do quote their source though), saying they just shoot at suspected Hamas vehicle to prevent escape, knowing there's a chance Israeli hostages is in it.
Their action in a month checks out with the account on the first few day of battle in Israel, as they bomb the tunnel, disregard the safety of the hostage they're trying so hard to "rescue", that the hostage might get crushed from the collapsing tunnel. They don't care about collateral damage at all, and i fear the hostages that got killed from the ground assault will be pinned on Hamas.
It seems Hamas way overestimated how much compassion Israelis would have for hostages, journalists, or innocent children...
It's a serious miscalculation. IDF has been show not giving a fuck about collateral damage. They shot children to disperse riot. They snipe children and tell the world the kids are armed. They murder journalist then blame it on Hamas.
According to the survivor account, Hamas purposefully inform the police and wait for them to come, instead of retreat with the hostage. They really thought they can talk it off with the police and IDF but they really don't know their enemy at all.
Let's not call it "collateral damage" when it's deliberately shooting or bombing children or other civilians. The term "collateral damage" was the US military's euphemism for supposedly accidental killing of civilians. The IDF doesn't even care to make it look accidental.
You're right, it's murder.
Very roughly, of the 778,000 residents of Gaza about 10,000 have died and almost half have been forced to leave their homes. Even if the statement were true, it would not be worth it.
That's the population of urban areas only. The population of Gaza Strip is a little over 2 million. Obviously that doesn't make the casualties any better, but I always like to work with accurate facts.
It's almost like the government calling them subhuman beasts isn't concerned about genociding civilians over a land grab.
You split Gaza in half
You get same military, but now two Gaza
Stick wins everytime
so that's multiple hospitals and refugee camps now essentially collected into a concentration camp.