this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2023
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I think I’ve settled on the latter. Disagreement is maybe best communicated by the absence of an upvote? And downvotes work best when they signal something that is just off base, and while not reportable, is not appreciated at a broad cultural level.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

=This is Bad content, which i want to see less of

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think this is very close to the most solid answer possible. Like

This is Bad content

I agree completely with this bit. Downvotes are inherently subjective, as is the concept of Bad content. But to make a choice of what to downvote, someone has to identify something worth deeming downvotable, and screw it, that's a good way to deacribe what the majority of what falls under that umbrella.

The next bit is where I'd make a correction.

which I want others to see less of

You can't unsee that bad content, it's too late. And you can't guarantee that downvoting will dissuade its continued presence. The only correlation between the two involves an expected emotional attachment between the posters of the bad content and their scoring outcome, and that's not always here nor there. Bad content posters can be persistent.

But downvoting it has an immediate effect on the visibility of the Bad content for other people. It also labels that content. Doing so, puts it away from other people's eyes, and tells others that someone thinks it should be put away. Maybe they'll come to agree or disagree with that downvote, maybe it'll lead to you seeing less content. Also no guarantee. But that immediate effect, the visibility and the score, can not be taken away.

In either scenario, it's a communication tool. It may relate to your wishes for content, but mechanically, its impact is felt by a third party.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Dude wrote an entire essay for my two-sentence comment.

Valid points, though

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

More like get this shit outa here

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

100% you should feel bad. I hope everyone i downvote cries themselves to sleep

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sooo ... if this is sarcasm I'm not sure I quite get it? People shouldn't be so sensitive about downvotes and the like?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Does the thought of the person, that you plan to downvote, crying themselves to sleep make you happy? Then you should downvote them. I think that's what they wanted to say.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just think everyone I downvote is undeniably evil and any amount of hatred towards them is justified

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I want everyone i downvote to die and burn in hell

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Downvote for bad technical advise, I think the person is a bad actor/bad faith argument, or if the person turns ~~hostile~~ to ad hominem attacks. I try not to downvote if I'm putting the effort into debating someone.

edit: for clarity

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah if someone say something I disagree with but isn't factually wrong I'll just leave it be.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I think voting based on quality of content (and NOT whether you agree with it) is the best approach for healthy discussions. If somebody is a low effort troll, then for sure downvote (and maybe even consider reporting).

OTOH, if somebody makes a well written and thoughtful post about why Totoro is the best Ghibli movie ever, and meanwhile you think Totoro is not even in their top 3, then I would still recommend NOT downvoting 😃

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes. This.

Upvoting things you disagree with but are well put and compelling is the litmus test in a way.

Vote for quality = a better platform

Vote for personal appreciation = a toxic platform ?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’ve upvoted comments that I disagreed with, but were well written an contributed to a good discussion. I only downvote for very low quality, spam or hateful comments.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I stick to the original "Reddiquette" which I wish more people stuck to or even fucking READ for a start.

Downvotes were meant for off-topic and spam nonsense. They were NEVER meant for disagreement. If you disagreed with someone you were encouraged to comment in response. It fostered a much better and interesting community with people of differeing views not afraid to voice their dissent.

You would literally get right and left-wingers having heated but civil debates with each other and neither would be getting heavily downvoted. Can you imagine that happening on Reddit nowadays?

When Diggers and the general populace jumped on Reddit downvotes just turned into a spiteful and underhanded way of saying "Fuck your opinion and I don't feel like justifying it".

This resulted in echo chambers where people were too afraid to voice their true opinions cos they'd get downvoted and at worst banned from the subreddit by over-zealous mods who'd forgotten what downvotes were for.

I have a personal theory that this accelerated the polarisation of politics across the English-speaking world. Maybe if Republicans* didn't get so heavily downvoted they wouldn't have turned to places like The_Donald and 8chan to vent in like-minded echo chambers. They could discuss things without getting villified and have their views challenged in a civil manner.

*NB. Shouldn't matter but to be clear I'm a left wing Brit. I'm just using Donald Trump/Democrats as a will known divisive issue.

I LOVE Lemmy because it has the oldschool Reddit vibe where people will disagree and neither person is downvoting the other. They just have civil discussion. Much better!!

Personally I NEVER downvote unless it's utterly meaningless, pointless or just downright spam. I recently added one more trigger for me to downvote though: Low effort bullshit like "This" or puns that add ntohing to the conversation except to garner upvotes for their 'comedic' value.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

There's difference in disagreeing in opionion and thinking someone is just wrong. In the latter case, I find it reasonable to suppress their comment using downvotes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Neither; downvotes = this doesn't contribute to the topic and/or doesn't contribute anything relevant to the conversation.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Downvote = "I think this should be less visible than it is."

Generally for disagreeing with something that's pretty petty.

But if it's verifiably misinformation, downvotes are more than warranted.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I think of it like a digital facial expression. Upvoting is akin to smiling or conveying some other positive emotion like affirmation or understanding (even if the subject matter is inherently negative). Downvote is the opposite- someone says something irl that makes you frown or grimmace, or you know they're telling you a lie, your expression can convey that without a single word. Here, downvote.

There's no real etiquette - if you feel like you want to give an up or down vote, just do it and don't put too much thought into it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Its both. It will never, not be both. This idea that there should be some rule that we have to up vote things that we disagree with because it's well written is cope from people that needs to go outside.

Comments get downvoted because it failed to convince people to agree with the comment and that makes it a bad comment.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Sad part of the design is that I need to interact with a post to get it off my feed so if it's an some stupid meme or whatever i just downvote and move on to clear up all the repeats.

The setting is off by default but you turn on hide post after interaction in the settings.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For me, downvote typically means either "this adds nothing to the discussion" or "this was made in bad faith"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yes. I upvote stuff I disagree with constantly. That's because I view the purpose to promote content that furthers discussion.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

i will downvote anythong that is false, misleading, doesn't contribute to the conversation or classic reddit humor adding to the same joke

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are upvotes for agreement ok though? Or should upvotes be reserved for quality content?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you agree with something, you probably consider it quality content.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Taste my righteous wrath and because I can do it with one click without explaining why means I don't need to and the internet is on my side. Feels like the implicit meaning when I'm downvoted.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Up = I like this

Down = I hate this

If you have more ups than downs: The viewers commonly liked it.

If you have more downs than ups: The viewers commonly hated it.

It's simple and it's how it's always worked, and likely will continue to work, regardless of any deeper sentiments some people may have about it.

I wish there was a new button that simply meant "I have no opinion on this one way or another." But I guess that's simply non-engagement.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I use it as:

up = this should be here

Down = this should not be here

Course I have my own biases but. I don't want to see people get downvoted for saying things I don't like just because I don't like it. Also anyone who downvotes honest questions is just being mean.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Originally up- and down votes were intended to crowd source filtering and rating content in a community. So voting up for things you want to see more of and vote down spam or content that is unfit for the community. But people will tend to upvote things they agree with and downvote those they deem wrong - I also find myself doing something like that. I now try to follow these rules:

  • Upvote things I like (or agree with)
  • Don't vote on things I don't agree with or think are dumb
  • Downvote things that I feel really don't belong here.

It helps that lemmy currently shows the number of up and down votes instead of just the score, it gives a bit more inhibition before downvoting stuff.

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