These companies should be fined just for having the audacity to make people sign ridiculous end user agreements like this.
this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2023
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It's like the olden times where illiterate people were asked to sign a contract that waived their rights and possessions while they were being told something else entirely.
That's just modern day Russia whereby asylum seekers were sent to the Finnish border, not let in, then when turning back round were given documents to sign by Russia which they were told meant they would be allowed to stay, but actually meant they were being shipped off to Ukraine to fight.
It's like a potentially abusive spouse, asking their future spouse to waive all rights to seek legal recourse if they beat them in the future. This crap shouldn't be legal.
Wait… the Chinese Intelligence-collecting app might not be trustworthy?
Oh, how my world crumbles around me!
So these things keep appearing in contracts but everyone seems to say they're totally unenforceable so... Why do they keep appearing in contracts?
If it's not illegal to add, the only risk is bad press coverage, and it might prevent someone from suing in the first place because they don't know their rights.
Except in several states if any of the contract is invalid it all is.
In the United States where TikTok is based, contracts can include "severability clauses" that state that in the event any part of the contract is deemed unenforceable, the other parts are still good
Uhhh tiktok is based in China
it's owned by a Chinese company, but TikTok itself is based in the US
Wasn't there a big hoohar about that a couple of years ago which meant they had to move?
Corporate:'I'm sorry you were looking for an issue with tik tok. the problem is. tik tok is not the issue.'
due to dividends untold tik tok just money guns politicians in the cooter till they spazzin...
What
That’s not a common thing in American contracts. Severability clauses take care of that.
Is that true? I can't find any source for it, except very specific cases where the language and contents of the contract matter.
IANAL; However Usually the contracts have a severability clause, meaning even if some parts of that contract are null and void the rest of it stands minus the parts that are illegal. Does that mean those clauses are also null and void depending on locality? Again IANAL, but I believe it's pretty settled contract law at least in the US.
There's zero chance that any user agreements ever have those.
Djtecha seemed to be saying there is some blanket rule in some states.
It's a pretty common clause in most contracts, so I'm not sure why you're so confident that they aren't used in EULAs
We need legislation to fix this. Something like "should a contract drafted by a lawyer include clauses that they knew or should have known to be unenforceable or void, the entire contract shall be unenforceable by the drafting party"
Because sooner or later, some judge will decide it is enforceable.
Plus it serves as a deterrent for some from even filing a suit with the risk of it getting thrown out and them out thousands of dollars in legal fees.
Because enough people will read it without consulting a lawyer and never do so that pays for itself before the inks dry.
to cover their asses. It's like seizure warnings on video games. it should go without saying but. sadly...it has to be said. if a case does arise, judges usually create a 'quasi' contract that's usually modified to be fairer for both parties...usually...😬
This should be a glaring warning for anyone. The translation for this statement is only ever "WE ARE DOING OR PLAN TO DO SHADY, LIKELY ILLEGAL THINGS WITH YOUR INFORMATION! ~#plsdontsuekthx~“
How the fuck is this even legal? How can a company put itself above or beyond all legal scrutiny.
It's probably not legal, but do you have the financial means to take on a large company like Tiktok in a protracted legal battle?
Yes that will hold up in court, surely.
Everyone knows EULAs are legally binding.
Maybe I've missed the /s, but yes, they're binding, as long as they're not in contradiction with the laws.
Where I live, they're almost always in contradiction with the laws.
They don't meet the terms necessary for the definition of a legal agreement.
- They do not contain a signature.
- They don't explicitly identify you as an individual (again they can't because no signature)
- They are not open to arbitration
- They also don't bind the company to any legal requirements. A contract is between two, or more people. EULAs just define what you're not allowed to do. They put no restrictions on the company at all.
They exist to scare people and nothing more they're worth not as much as the paper they never written on.
It would depend on the jurisdiction obviously, but I believe most of those points are irrelevant.
- An arbitration clause is just a preference, it doesn't mean you can't resolve a disagreement in some way.
- Just because a contract typically binds both people to some requirements doesn't mean it always has to be that way. An agreement can be one-sided. In the case of EULAs though, there is the requirement on the company to provide you with the software and allow you to use it for as long as the EULA is in effect.
- I doubt an agreement has to identify both individuals in the actual text. The key aspect is whether both parties agree to the terms and whether it can be shown that the individuals agreed to them after the fact.
As far as signing goes, I know that in my country (Sweden) a verbal agreement is legally just as good as a written signature - it's just harder to prove in court. Contract law typically recognizes the ability to agree electronically, and in EULAs the agreement is made by using the software. Again, YMMV by country. My original claim that they're typically illegal was about the actual terms of the agreement, which often conflict with written law. For example in the EU you have a right to reverse engineer products for the sake of interoperability, and no EULA can override that right.
In Sweden there's also a law to allow you to make personal backups of media and software, and you're permitted to give copies to your friends and family. In fact, there's a state-regulated "private copying levy" designed to compensate content owners for their monetary loss caused by this copying. Which really infuriates me considering the lengths they go to to prevent me from doing the copying that I'm paying them for the right to do.
Are those user agreements even legally binding in most countries? They aren't in my country since you aren't signing them, pressing agree doesn't count.
As far as I know it's not legally binding pretty much anywhere. They're not legal contracts because they don't fulfill the requirements of one.
There's no way that's enforceable
I'm sure they have absolutely nothing to be afraid of. They're just defending themselves. /s
This is the best summary I could come up with:
According to The New York Times, changes that TikTok "quietly" made to its terms suggest that the popular app has spent the back half of 2023 preparing for a wave of legal battles.
Perhaps most significantly, TikTok also added a section to its terms that mandates that all legal complaints be filed within one year of any alleged harm caused by using the app.
Then, in 2022, TikTok defeated a Pennsylvania lawsuit alleging that the app was liable for a child's death because its algorithm promoted a deadly "Blackout Challenge."
The same year, a bipartisan coalition of 44 state attorneys general announced an investigation to determine whether TikTok violated consumer laws by allegedly putting young users at risk.
As new information becomes available to consumers through investigations and lawsuits, there are concerns that users may become aware of harms that occurred before TikTok's one-year window to file complaints and have no path to seek remedies.
One lawyer representing more than 1,000 guardians and minors claiming TikTok-related harms, Kyle Roche, told the Times that he is challenging TikTok's updated terms.
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