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Of course Trump is worse.
Now let's not pretend that the Democratic Party has any love at all for these protestors. Let's not pretend that the prevailing sentiment in this community isn't that these protestors should shut up and stop criticizing US support for Netanyahu's genocide because they're worried it makes Biden look bad.
And let's not pretend that the US isn't a two-party system.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Your choices are Trump or Biden.
And I'm voting for Biden.
Then why are you campaigning for Trump?
That is not at all what's happening. The world is much less black and white than you think.
I'm not campaigning for Trump.
This whole thing of "you need to lie about the facts to make one side look way better than they are or else you are campaigning for the other side" thing needs to go. It just needs to go. It isn't fooling anyone, and it just makes everyone doing it come across as idiots. Own your stance, be honest about what we can all see, and try to explain why you feel like you do from base reality. I know you've been told it makes you a traitor or whatever, but it simply doesn't. It makes you come across as a genuine person, and it makes the things you say have more weight.
Wow, that's a lot of words just to set up a simple strawman. The people denigrating Joe Biden and the Democratic party are campaigning for the other one, either deliberately as agitprop elements or in ignorance as useful idiots. That's not a novel principle, and it's not unique to this election cycle. I'm happy to engage in nuanced, fair, complex discourse about US politics with anyone who wants to have it, and I have criticisms of my party. But that discourse isn't happening here, and it's not happening with these people.
These people are waving lit matches in the forest of US democracy and then becoming indignant when anyone suggests that things are really dry right now. And your position seems to be that I should be honest about the fact that sometimes a little fire is valuable. I hope you can understand why I think maybe you're not being honest about your agenda.
My agenda is to see more honest discussions. It is not a hidden agenda. I am very open about it. I, and many other people, honestly believe that Joe is doing a horrific job. I also honestly believe that Trump would do a horrific job. I am disgusted by the fact that nobody who could potentially make it into the White House has shown anything but complete and utter contempt for the innocent lives in Gaza.
I absolutely refuse to pretend that Biden is great for Gaza in some pathetic attempt to trick idiots who somehow haven't paid attention into thinking that Biden isn't floating in am Olympic sized pool of children's blood. I'm not saying Trump will do any better, and I'm not saying I will vote for Trump. All I am saying is that we will all be better off if vocal people like yourself were to at least try to have honest dialogs. No strawman, no hidden agenda, just plain, honest discussion. The thing that has offended you so deeply can be summed up in a single word. Honesty.
Do tell. What criticisms do you have of the Democratic Party?
Nope. Check the thread, comrade. I'm just here to put a light on the bait--not to swallow it.
So willing to make claims, but way more willing to run away when called to stand up for them. If you start trying to make honest claims, then this wouldn't happen, instead you would be glad to back them up.
Edit: typo
"You don't have to attend every argument you're invited to."
So no, thanks. I don't owe you a defense, engagement, or an policy apologetics treatment of the current administration's governance for the last four years. There are plenty of places to find that information if you actually care to find it.
So far you've managed to call me an idiot, a liar, and a coward in all of about fifteen minutes. Why on earth would I believe you're capable of nuanced political discourse? We've nothing to discuss.
I think nobody will be surprised to know that you are unable to point to any comment where I called you an idiot or a coward. I didn't explicitly call you a liar, but I did point out that you make dishonest claims, and I admit it is basically the same thing. Your claims that I called you an idiot and a coward are a wonderful example of you doing exactly that.
Believe it or not, you did show up to the argument, and instead of admitting that you lost it, you are trying to pretend you were never even here.
You could just say you have no criticism after all.
I could, but that wouldn't be true. I'll tell you the same thing I told the other sockpuppet: you're not entitled to an argument just because you ask for one.
Your accusations are false.
@[email protected] is gonna twist it around, call you a centrist, and cry about being bullied. Don't engage with this twat he's a bad faith actor and a terrible one at that. A verified chucklefuck.
Now compare your fanfic to what actually happened.
I guess you're conveniently forgetting about yesterday where you made an absolute fool of yourself and got caught lying.
Btw I'm STILL waiting on that answer.
Or I suppose you could change the subject instead, yeah.
Keep lowering that bar, champ.
Just reviewed those threads. It's no where near as clear cut as you describe here. Your comment comes off pretty creepy, kinda stalkery
Oh I know. Trust me, I don't engage with these people with any illusions. There's no arguing with the agitprop element here. The point of responding at all is just to identify them to the general public.
What do you want us to do come November about it?
Vote for Biden, of course. There's no better choice, to my utter dismay.
See this is what drives me crazy though. I always see people write these big critiques of Biden, often even implying he’s basically the same as Trump, but they never go so far as to say “but pull the lever for Biden anyway.“ It’s why there is such a distaste for the endless critiques on lemmy of Biden by many of us. Because there is kind of this implication that you either shouldn’t vote or you should at least not vote for Biden. Some folks like you, and I’m not saying you do this, get so angry about anybody who says “vote for Biden anyway.” They act like we are unable to critique him. But really a lot of us are just coming from a place of pragmatism, and we get worried because the critiques need to close with at least something like “but do not vote Trump. The election is at our doorstep. Vote Biden.”
Real change won’t occur within the next few months. We need to stop Trump.
Congratulations.
If you’re just going to start being flippant and unproductive when I’m trying to have a real discussion with you then we can just stop here. Have a good rest of your weekend.
Sorry. I'm coming to this with the understanding that delay means that many fewer living Palestinians and that much closer to Netanyahu completing his genocide. I consider this situation to be too time-sensitive for incrementalism, and I have a tendency to regard calls for patience in the face of this to be callous.
I also firmly believe that Biden is harming his own chances of defeating Trump by supporting Netanyahu's genocide, and that the future of democracy in the US rests on his willingness to cease his support.
If Biden does not change in the next few months, I fear things will get much worse and may never improve for the human species.
I understand that but right now what do you want me to do about it? Really and truly. I’ve written my reps, I’ve stood with protestors, I’ve been very vocal about my feelings re: Israel’s horrific retaliation. We are discussing an election in November between Trump and Biden, right? So what do I do with that?
Trump will make it objectively worse for Palestinians. So I will vote Biden.
I don't know.
I get that. I live in Texas. Writing to my rep and senators results in a form letter thanking me for agreeing with them (contrary to the content of my letter), followed by fundraising mailers.
Only thing to do is vote for Biden and take a really long shower afterwards.
Likewise. I fear that absent change on Biden's part, he will lose anyway.