But Biden is as bad as Trump according to some here. Yeah, ok.
this post was submitted on 27 May 2024
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Of course Trump is worse.
Now let's not pretend that the Democratic Party has any love at all for these protestors. Let's not pretend that the prevailing sentiment in this community isn't that these protestors should shut up and stop criticizing US support for Netanyahu's genocide because they're worried it makes Biden look bad.
And let's not pretend that the US isn't a two-party system.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Your choices are Trump or Biden.
What do you want us to do come November about it?
Vote for Biden, of course. There's no better choice, to my utter dismay.
See this is what drives me crazy though. I always see people write these big critiques of Biden, often even implying he’s basically the same as Trump, but they never go so far as to say “but pull the lever for Biden anyway.“ It’s why there is such a distaste for the endless critiques on lemmy of Biden by many of us. Because there is kind of this implication that you either shouldn’t vote or you should at least not vote for Biden. Some folks like you, and I’m not saying you do this, get so angry about anybody who says “vote for Biden anyway.” They act like we are unable to critique him. But really a lot of us are just coming from a place of pragmatism, and we get worried because the critiques need to close with at least something like “but do not vote Trump. The election is at our doorstep. Vote Biden.”
Real change won’t occur within the next few months. We need to stop Trump.
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I think we all knew this of President Drink Bleach, and we saw how he tear-gassed protesters that time when he held a Bible visibly for a photo shoot.
Trump's issue, I optimistically believe, is that those who wrote "Uncommitted" during the primaries and those who point out the ongoing genocide will still vote for Biden - because everyone has already correctly assumed what this article is stating.
Nonetheless, it's reaffirming to have confirmation. Thank you for posting this.
Tear-gassed a priest with those protestors as well just fyi.
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Convincing people that no matter who you vote for, we'll keep paying for the genocide is not a good strategy.
All that will do is make empathetic people not vote, and when turnout is low, republicans win.
Dems can't run in fear based politics about what the other side wants to do, the people that shit works on are already Republicans.
Dem voters want to hear about what Dems will do to help.
It is very very hard to change that, because it's literally how our brains work.
Dems tend to have larger prefrontal cortex (empathy and critical thinking) while Republicans have waaaay more amygdala activity (fear, flight/fright/freeze).
What appeals to one group, doesn't appeal to the other. But both groups cater to conservatives and hope they can guilt trip high empathy voters.
https://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.neuropsych.16030051
The people running the Dem party need to learn some fucking empathy and realize just because deep down they're closer to conservatives than liberals, and that voters aren't motivated by the same shit.
I mean, we could just replace party leaders with empathetic people who understand their voters, but I'm not holding my breath.
I would like to be deported to New Zealand please!
I can't wait to be deported back to Michigan.
Well, I’m glad then that the democrats aren’t violently suppressing free speech too.
Oh wait.
Right now, it's local officials, not the executive branch doing it in a coordinated way. We don't, for example, have the border patrol and FBI driving around in minivans with no insignia and name patch and snatching people off the street like we had during the Black Lives Matter protests under Trump.
Yes, Trump agrees with neoliberals regarding anti-genocide protesters.
Well yes because neoliberalism is the ideology of American conservatives. It’s a conservative ideology. People keep saying “neoliberal” to mean Democrat but really it’s bush sr and jr-era Republican politics. There are some neoliberal tendencies among the democrats but it is decidedly a conservative ideology espoused by the Republican Party.
Edit: part of Trump’s appeal was a rejection of some heavily ingrained neoliberal ideas in the GOP, such as how they conducted foreign policy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/ggu3wr/im_governor_jared_polis_of_colorado_former/
Yet, Jared Polis identifies as neo liberal. And identifies Pete Buttigieg as one too.
It's the 'kind face' of colonial capitalism. In my opinion. Fascism the scary face. Both lead to corporate feudalism as far as I can tell. One faster and with less chance to use democracy to improve conditions for the poor through safety nets and unions.
But people aren't all one thing. Biden has shown that with his relationship with unions.
Like I said, there are neoliberal tendencies among democrats. But to call them “neoliberal” is not accurate. You can’t support government programs like they do and be a neoliberal. It’s antithetical. Neoliberalism is an almost rigid orthodoxy that the free market/invisible hand will solve literally everything. The economy, societal woes, foreign policy, you name it. Deregulate and privatize everything not nailed down. The modern Democratic party isn’t remotely like that.
That's fair. I've always been a bit surprised that Jared Polis self identifies that way tbh.
Some folks really do all but worship the invisible hand it’s a bit bizarre.
I also do understand why people call Democrats “neoliberals” but I just can’t help and go to the mat over it lol
These "I'm not gonna vote for Biden because my principles are too important" folks are really starting to piss me off.
Where were your principles last year? The year before? Where were they when Russia invaded Ukraine? What about the Rohingya? The Yazidi? How about here at home and what Republican power - in congress and across the courts? Where will they be if Trump wins and appoints another SCOTUS judge and packs the federal courts? When hundreds of transgender Americans are murdered? When women no longer have any autonomy over their bodies?
This isn't about your principles. It's not about you looking cool in a keffiyeh. This is about all of us on the left working together to reduce the most harm. You in your enormous privilege are not the main character here.
I mean seriously... get the fuck over yourselves you spoiled brats.
Well put. The only principle we should be considering is saving as many lives as possible and preventing as much persecution as possible. Adherence to any principles which go against this simply shows those principles are not worth holding, not as absolutes at least.
Voting for the democrats isn't saving lives though. The red states are just going ahead with massive civil rights violations anyways. If the democrats won't step in to stop them then we don't have a reason to vote for them anymore. The worst case scenario is already happening. It's not in the future, it's now.
Voting for the democrats isn’t saving lives though.
How do you prove or disprove this?
If the democrats won’t step in to stop them then we don’t have a reason to vote for them anymore
Do you not understand how our system of government works? Or do you just want some sort of left-leaning fascism? Admittedly, Bernie would make a great benevolent dictator... but that's exactly the kind of thing that bites you in the ass eventually.
The president has more power than you think he does. Trump reminded us of that. And it's simple to prove. What has he done to stop Abbot and DeSantis? He has how many federal law enforcement officers? And he hasn't just arrested the Texas national guardsmen operating illegally on the border? Hell he could just call them to federal duty and send them to an ammo dump in Alaska.
I suspect a lot of those people are arguing in bad faith and are actually spreading misinformation. That they never intended on voting for Biden, or always intended on voting for Trump and trying to make it seem like Biden is losing his base.
IRL, most people I know, while not happy with Biden's response acknowledge that Trump's view is much much worse.
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