Ask Lemmy

I used to work above a guy who had a reputation in the company for not really taking direction well from anyone (hence why he ended up in our section) and he was about double my age.

What I used to do was mention two things that needed doing and ask him which one he wanted to do. Most of what we did could’ve been done by either of us but in letting him pick what he wanted he had more inclination to actually do it. The rapport that came from this did allow me to jump on the few things that I wanted and get minimal backlash because I was fair most of the time.

Treat people with respect and make them feel like their opinions are valued.

If it comes to personal stories and life experience in conversation - try and take a lot more of a listening role and acknowledge their experience. They’ll feel valued in that space which will translate over to respect in the working space.

So the balance you have to get right is between respecting their experience and defending your right to make the final decision.

Asking them, “what are your thoughts on how to handle this situation”, and if the idea sounds good implementing it immediately, will go a long way to showing them you’re not going to insist on your way in every situation, which is the main cause of animosity, especially when the other person is more experienced.

But just by showing you’ll consider their ideas, you should expect some people to push to have you accept every idea they have, which can occur more often when they think they should be in your place anyway.

When that happens, it’s important to clarify that while you want to get everyone’s input, the final decision rests with you, and once you make it, you expect everyone to carry it out. And though constructive feedback on how to improve the process is always welcome, critiquing it simply because it is not their idea is not.

If you say that to them, looking them in the eyes with a calm but determined voice and expression, they’ll understand you’re a boss that wants input but will remain independent, which is the type of boss people respect.

In this sense it’s not much different from managing any team, except you should be more willing to seek out their input because they truly do have more experience.

One more thing that’s extremely important. When you make a decision, especially when it’s one where you chose between competing ideas or you went with your own, always explain the rationale for your decision. If your explanation makes sense and is honest, they’ll understand you were truly choosing what you thought was the best decision, and not just picking the one from your favorite person (including yourself).

Nothing diminishes respect more than showing favoritism, especially if they think you benefited from it to get your position.

I've never worked in a kitchen, and I'm sure it's different than the office jobs I've done. But still, it's important to remember that leadership is not about "telling people what to do" as you described it.

One of the easiest mistakes to make as a leader is assuming that your job is to always be in charge, to order people round, to maintain an air of authority. Sometimes yes, that's needed, but in my experience it's pretty rare.

Your job as a leader is to set direction, make sure people know what's expected of them, make sure they have everything they need to do their job, and then stay out of their way. Especially if you're leading people who are already experienced and know what they're doing.

Did the people on the line go out for to Sous slot?

If you beat them out for the role there'll likely be animosity.

If they didn't even try, a 30-40 yo line cook may be happy prepping mise and schlepping peas, and doesn't want any part of the unpaid overtime you just signed up for.

As an older guy with a 35+ year career I've had a number of bosses younger than me. If you don't make it weird, I won't make it weird. It's no big deal. A lot of workplace authority is arbitrary / accidental anyway. Or just favoritism. Best to keep your head down and not let it bother you.

This happens all the time in the military, where NCOs tend to be older and more experienced than the officers they report to, especially at lower levels of the organization. This sometimes causes issues, but when it works, it's because of two things:

1. These situations are completely normal for the organization, so everyone knows what to expect and how to maintain decorum.
2. The officer and NCO have different roles and acknowledge each others' strengths and weaknesses.

My practical advice, then, is this: don't worry so much at first. Your older coworkers may be completely fine with the situation - for example, they may be just fine being line cooks and have no ambitions to move up. If you start getting feelings of resentment from your coworkers, you should address them then.

You can also defer to their greater experience in situations where appropriate. Make sure they understand that while you are acting on their advice, the responsibility still lies with you. If the decision results in an unfavourable outcome, you are the one who will take the blame. However, if the decision results in a favourable outcome instead, be sure to give credit to the advice and experience of your team.

Hey I am older and just want to say don't worry - at some point you will be that older person and your doctor will be younger than you, your boss will be younger than you. It's no big deal. Just do a good job.

I work at an aerospace engineering company. Early in my management career, I was asked to take over the System Architecture team - the people who do the front-end conceptual design for a lot of products. Most of the people on that team were PhD's in things like physics, chemical engineering, nuclear physics, etc., and many had multiple degrees. Some had been there 30 or 40 years - longer than I'd been alive. Note: I wasn't asked to take it because I was smarter than anyone on the team - probably the opposite - each person on the team would have considered it a demotion to be given a management job.

I found the best approach was to just think of myself as a facilitator/enabler. I'd talk to the team members individually to understand what was in their way, then I'd legitimately try hard to remove those things. I talked to everyone like peers, and didn't insert myself where it was likely that they knew better than me (e.g., I wasn't going to be solving any technical problems on a nuclear propulsion design, so no reason even getting involved).

Just being respectful to everyone (whether they work for you or not) goes a long way. But you also have a job to do - there no reason to be apologetic if your job includes making assignments or whatever, just do it.

The only job I've had where I might have been "managing" employees older than myself we never had any issues because of an age gap. In fact, I even trained a guy to operate the same machine I ran who was like 30 years older and we got along great.

The best advice I can give is simply: don't make it a big deal and they probably won't either. I showed them the same amount of respect I would to someone my own age and didn't treat them like they should be "higher up" in the field because of their seniority.

In my situation the older guy I trained was a railroad worker for like 20 years before switching to the machining job; we both understood that I had a couple years ahead of him at this particular facility and he took the opportunity to ask questions learn a lot while we worked together.

A lot of good comments on here. One thing I'd add is that EVERYONE has imposter syndrome. The thing that differentiates good and bad leaders is how they handle their syndrome. If they try to hide it, they bully people and don't seek guidance. If they give in to it, they can't make decisions.

The trick is to maintain humility, recognize that you'll be wrong, and learn from it. See your job as facilitating their jobs. Listen to your employees and communicate with them. Tell them what they do well. Find out what motivates them.

Older, more tenured employees will appreciate it if you ask for their feedback and if you see it as a team effort. There may be some that are so bitter they can't get over it. Everyone is better off if they leave quickly.

A good manager doesn't tell people how to do their jobs. If a person doesn't know how to do their job, they shouldn't be doing that job, regardless of their age. The manager makes expectations known, tries to facilitate communication, and makes a reasonable effort to provide an environment for a person to succeed. Your job is to coordinate the effort of a team, so be understanding but do not allow yourself to be disrespected.

Once I figured out that the reason why I was their manager and it wasn't the other way around was because of luck it got easier. I treat them the way I would like to be treated. And I don't have to have an ego because it was chance that got me to where I am. I am allowed to be wrong, they are allowed to be wrong, I am allowed to be right, and they are allowed to be right. We just need to get thru the day with little drama so we can go home after doing work we are proud of.

Oh and from one manager of skilled people to another. Your biggest fear in a few months is not that they won't respect you it is that they will quit. That keeps me up at night, the idea of one of them telling me that this is their two week notice.

Your first task is to identify who's who, first by determining their sentiment towards you, who likes you, who's indifferent, who hates you, if they hate, why...

Next, figure out their level of knowledge, who's a fool, who's a fool and thinks they're smart, who's truly smart and who's smart but thinks they're a fool.

With this map made, prepare your strategy. To start, don't waste time on fools who hate you and the fools who flatter you, they're a waste of time, but always treat them with respect, just don't expend energy on them, as they usually sink themselves.

Treat those who are indifferent to you with respect and try to convert them into followers, showing that you understand their frustrations and problems that may make them uninterested in the work. But be careful not to become a psychologist.

Finally, regarding the people who like you, play it safe, subtly compliment them when you can, encourage their growth. If they're the smart type who thinks they're a fool, show them they have impostor syndrome and watch their morale boost. If they're fools, understand why they're fools, it might just be that they're in the wrong position. But if it's something worse, try to subtly keep your distance, so as not to turn a sympathetic fool into a new hater.

In conclusion, always treat people with respect, regardless of their position or age, remember that things change, tomorrow one of them could be your boss and you wouldn't want to be humiliated because of revenge for something you did in the past.

I was 35 when I took over a team of 11 people. Most of them are younger, but a few were older.

It really depends on the people, so your key going forward will be paying attention, making time to talk to them, and following through on whatever you say...so be careful with what you say. It's okay to not know and have to follow back up.

Time management has been my biggest struggle. Doing the daily job plus having the time and energy to actually manage (by setting expectations, following up, etc.) can be exhausting. One thing at a time - try not to counteract this issue by doing 30 things at once. That's an easy way to lose track of something.

Go watch the Bear, they got it.

Respect them, respect their knowledge and experience. Acknowledge that they know stuff, and then leverage this to tell (not ask!) them to do task XYZ.

You may just have preconceived notions. I’m in a similar position and am trying not to expect this sort of behavior. However my plan is to maintain open and honest communication. If you feel resentment or animosity arising from someone, have a private meeting with them to discuss it. It’s a simple “hey I feel some resentment from you towards myself and/or other teams members and I wanted to clear the air and see if I did something to upset you?”. Usually simple, clear, concise beginnings are best. Get an understanding of why someone is acting a certain way then try to find a way to relate to their emotions. Then you can both try to come up with a way to relieve their resentment and tension between the crew members.

Another comment said “we’re all adults” but society breeds immaturity and people rarely know how to discuss their emotions so they bottle them and that can manifest as anger or passive aggression. Both of which prolong uneasy feelings for NO reason when a small discussion can usually make things better. Confrontation can be hard at first, but ultimately helps to release pressure from building up inside.

I live this reality. My brother (whom I trained 15 years into my career and still doesn’t know half as much as me) is regularly my supervisor these days. He was promoted over me because has no problem lying to his superiors about the job while I have been punished for being professional, objective, and open about potential issues and difficulties that may arise. I was passed over due to INTEGRITY! It makes for a toxic work environment where ass-kissing is rewarded. He leads with fear while I would have lead with honesty and appreciation. I’ll probably end up changing careers over it.

IMO, maybe your situation is entirely different, but your employers set you up for failure by failing to promote from within. You’ll now be the victim of their shitty work culture.

Grown men and women older than you should be able to act like adults. Remind them that them being older than you also means that they should be much more mature than you when it comes to respecting authority and that them displaying that they can’t is probably why they didn’t get the position themselves.